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Yeah idk man... any team can have their night to make a comeback. Sometimes it just isn't your night.

What they need to do to get the pen fixed is give Izzy another shot, with the exception of last night he has pitched well since coming back. Putting him back in the 9th gets that pen into its proper order because Franklin, although a very good 7th and 8th inning guy is no closer. It brings us back to last year which if you recall was arguably the best pen in the NL. Plus, the return of Wainwright and Carpenter plus maybe the addition of another SP would take pressure off of the bullpen which has been over stressed since Wainwright went down.

On another note, last night might not be a falling off point, it might be exactly what the Cardinals need to wake them up going into the break because since last weekends Cub series they have been very flat with the exception of last Sat and Friday night's 6-0 win.

If Izzy can return to form, I'm okay with that, but I share CardFan2's concern that there is something physically wrong with Jason that him and the team aren't talking about. I agree he has been much better since coming back, but his location was awful last night and he looked uncomfortable out there......kind of like 2006 when he was pitching hurt.

It's not just one game TR. The bullpen has been outperformed by the starters all year. The biggest hole is a good left hander. Steve Kline was our last really good lefty. We need something out there. Maybe we need to find a leader to get them together the way Percival did for Tampa.

That's certainly a relevant comment, YankeeNation.

Here's a crazy thought. Can Carpenter take starting after almost two years off? Can he become a closer for the end of this season only?

Interesting thought. I know there was talk earlier of starting him in the bullpen, the way they did Morris.....but I think the scenarios are different. When Morris came back in 2000, the starting rotation was pretty loaded with Kile, Benes, Ankiel, Pat Hentgen, etc, so there was no need to rush Morris back into the rotation. I've watched TLR long enough to know that I can't imagine him going out in a pennant race starting guys like Looper and Thompson.....while Carp sits there in long relief. Can't imagine that.........but.....if they make a decision to have Carp close, that might be different, and TLR might go that direction if they thought it made sense. It worked with Wainwright, who had always been a starter in the minors.

Well, weren't they already saying they were considering using Carpenter as a reliever when they brought him back? I'm not sure they'd just thrust him in the role of closer. I could see them using him as the setup man, then expanding him to long relief. But to put him in as a closer seems unlikely.

Then again, so did having a rookie close out for the postseason in '06, and look how that turned out.

What strikes me as odd is that we have a former starter as our current closer in Franklin, and a former closer as a starter in Looper, and it doesn't seem like it occurred to LaRussa or Duncan to revert them. While they've both been good at times, they've also been more inconsistent this year (it's a joke among me and my friends that Looper alternates between throwing shutouts for seven innings and throwing up gopher balls in his starts). Obviously it'd take Franklin a few weeks to build his endurance back up, but I remember him sounding like he'd be more comfortable as a starter than closer.

It's Carpenter's disposition that makes me think he could be a great closer.

What's better? Having a starter in the pen or watching us blow saves on a record pace? I don't know about TLR; but as thin as we with starters, I'd really rather see some relief help at this point. It's better to lose every 5h game because of the starter than every other game because of the relief corps.

I agree that Carp has the bulldog mentality it takes to be a closer, but I think I'd rather he start and Mozeliak go get help for the bullpen.

Steve - I know what you are saying about Franklin and Looper, and it is an interesting irony that we are in that situation with them.....but I personally don't want to see Looper try to close again.

If, however.....Mo doesn't get help for the bullpen, I wouldn't be opposed to trying Carp in the closer role.....especially if Adam comes back strong to strengthen the rotation.

Oh, I think I heard that TLR has anointed Garcia as the fifth starter for now.

The post says Garcia starts on Sunday.

I am kind of surprised it isn't Thompson. TLR always seems to love getting him in the rotation.

Duncan said Thompson is too valuable to start. That may mean he's more worried about the bullpen than the starters.

"Too valuable"?? I never thought I would hear those words applied to Brad Thompson.

Thompson is very undervalued in my mind. Obviously his big problem is consistency because he does have some nasty stuff in his repetoire.

Franklin was a poor Starter, and Looper was inconsistent and didnt have that bullpen mentality. Franklin has two good pitches and mediocre after that. Where as Looper as 4 or 5 solid pitches but no great stuff to make him a great closer.So they're both far better off where they are.

... and finally all this speculation is pointless because they've already asserted that Carpenter will not return as a reliever. Plus returning to quality starters at the least even if they're not themselves for a while still means less strain on the bullpen because you can always count on 6 plus from both of em. Like I said before the bullpen's problems outside of Izzy stem from when Wainwright got hurt and the rotation had one less guy going deep into games.

A guy like Thompson who can pitch anytime, anywhere you need him is valuable. Franklin is a good example of a guy who is extremely valuable in his specialty, setup man, but so so out of that role.

Guys, I don't think that Thompson adds no value whatsoever, but to label him as "too valuable" is silly. He is what he is: a fringe major league pitcher who on his good days can give the team 3-4 good innings at a time as a starter or spot reliever. If he were in a rotation full-time, and teams got used to seeing him 2-3 times a year, he would get hammered. He adds a value, but what I disagreed with was the comment that he is too valuable in the bullpen to go to the rotation for a while. If he gives us a better chance than Garcia, he should start over the short-term.

While I think that Cardinals could definitely benefit from a midseason injection, I'm just not sure that Mozeliak is up to pulling the trigger.

There seems to be this underlying theme of "when we get healthy". When Carpenter returns, when Wainwright returns, when Flores returns. Problem is, you never know. You never know if Carpenter is going to come back the same Carpenter that won a Cy Young. You never know if Wainwright's injury won't still nag him for the rest of the year.

With all this uncertainty, there needs to be some sort of fall back plan to help us make the postseason this year. Go get an arm for the bullpen. If you can't do that, go get another big bat for the lineup so that the bullpen has a little more leeway.

I couldn't agree more, STLGuy. I'm not optimistic though, after hearing Mo's interviewi last night on FSN. He seemed to be singing the status quo song....and just talked about the injured guys coming back.

He also didn't give me any confidence that they are attempting to sign Lohse, and I thought he pretty much bristled at the question.