Interesting note:
In all Olympic events where the winner is determined by judges:
China has 21 Gold medals, 3 Silver, 8 Bronze (32 total)
US has 5 Gold medals, 7 Silver, 6 Bronze (18 total)
In all events where the winner is determined objectively (time, distance, etc)
China has 22 Gold medals, 11 Silver, 11 Bronze (44 total)
US has 21 Gold, 19 Silver, 21 Bronze (61 total)
The Ram | 08/19/08, 02:54 PM (statistics from this site)
When I saw this posted in a thread here on FanNation, the first thing I thought was not that China has obliterated the United States in the medal count where judges determine rankings. Rather, my eyes first glanced that China was still ahead of the United Sates in the gold-medal count of objective, measurable events. Today, with the current time in China slowly approaching the first rays of dawn light, the medal count currently stands thusly (with all events tallied):
1. United States - 26 gold, 26 silver, 27 bronze - 79 total
2. China - 43 gold, 14 silver, 19 bronze - 76 total
The United States has finally reclaimed its familiar position at the top of the Olympic Medal count after over a week of staring upward at the host nation. BOTH of these countries have won their share of medals in events where judging is deemed a necessary evil. But at the same time that much controversy has been wrought by the suspicions of impropriety on the part of the Chinese regarding the ages of their gymnasts, statistics like the one at the top of this column muddle more than they clarify the reality of the medal count.
Yes, it appears as though several of the female Chinese gymnasts were well below the minimum age requirement to compete in Olympic competition. However, the IOC has no means of proving that their passports are forgeries, and the athletes have already done what is done. The fact remains that they won in the eyes of the judges in the actual realm of competition. Yes, as the Sale/Pelletier incident in figure skating taught us, judging is prone to error or manipulation. We can either accept this and marvel at the athleticism required to sufficiently dazzle the judges into giving high scores, or we can denounce these events completely, in which case they might as well leave the Olympics altogether...
But that would be absurd. Because there is real athleticism in gymnastics. So, too, is there a sense of bodily control in an event like diving (and especially in synchronized diving) which requires such precision that the results are often an afterthought, such an obvious conclusion upon which little doubt can be shed by judges on the result. In these Olympics -- as it has been for many years now -- the Chinese divers have dominated the competition. Their sense of balance and positioning, all while flying through ten or thirty feet of air toward a sheet of water and then entering that water with the most faintly-perceptible of splashes, should shed no doubt upon the legitimacy of their gold medals.
So let's look at what those divers have done versus the gymnasts for China:
Divers: 6 gold, 0 silver, 2 bronze - 8 total
Gymnasts: 9 gold, 1 silver, 4 bronze - 14 total
Considering the wider range of individual events in which gymnasts can win medals, the divers have appeared as dominant as the gymnasts for China at these Olympic Games. Yet no one calls for investigations into this team. Both these programs have been international powerhouses for years, but it is not until the Games are held on Chinese soil that we question the Chinese. We can speculate all we want, but what is done is done...
Enjoy the spectacle for what it is, and recognize that not always does something go perfectly. That is the beauty of sport, the sense of perseverance which innately forms. Each athlete does his or her best to represent his/herself and his/her country... and all this overblown talk of medal impropriety only serves to cause us to lose real sense of what the Olympics should be all about. When all we focus on is winning and losing, the ideal upon which this entire construct was formed is lost in a power sweep of greed and gamesmanship...
Jessica White
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Very interesting stuff...Judged events can be infuriating...the boxers in in Seoul, the figure skaters in Nagano...the gymnasts in China.
On a different note...
I really don't like the overall medals stat.
I think we need a weighted medal count system.
Gold = 3 pts, Silver = 2pts, Bronze = 1pt
Or there could even be a system that gives pts to 4th thru 7th as well.
Actually, come to think of it, there probably already is a system like that. The overall medal count standings just seem overemphasized to me.
YODA
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I really don't like the overall medals stat.
I think we need a weighted medal count system.
Gold = 3 pts, Silver = 2pts, Bronze = 1pt
Or there could even be a system that gives pts to 4th thru 7th as well.
Actually, come to think of it, there probably already is a system like that. The overall medal count standings just seem overemphasized to me.
YODA | 08/19/08, 04:16 PM
In an earlier post, I mentioned this same thing and gave statistics to that point which showed that China was indeed WAY ahead on a weighted medal count...
That has not changed here. While the US is currently up 79-76 in total medals, by the same scale which you mentioned I have it projected thusly:
1. China - (43x3) + (14x2) + (19x1) = 176 points
2. USA - (26x3) + (26x2) + (27x1) = 157 points
Bigalke
Eugene, OR
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In an earlier post, I mentioned this same thing and gave statistics to that point which showed that China was indeed WAY ahead on a weighted medal count...
That has not changed here. While the US is currently up 79-76 in total medals, by the same scale which you mentioned I have it projected thusly:
1. China - (43x3) + (14x2) + (19x1) = 176 points
2. USA - (26x3) + (26x2) + (27x1) = 157 points
Bigalke | 08/19/08, 04:20 PM
LOL...in that case...forget the whole thing!
Lifer: Metallica…
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I going to force my kids to learn to speak both Mandarin and Cantonese just in case.
YODA
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My point here is that patriotism is only pertinent to a point. We cannot blind ourselves to sublime athletic achievements simply because they did not occur by the athlete swaddled in the colors of OUR nation's flag. The medal count is all good and well, and is fun to follow in the same way as the FanNation throwdown leaderboard... and just like that leaderboard, it reflects the actual strengths of those nations about as well (which is to say not that much)...
Even breaking these down into the weighted counts does not give accurate representation to the INDIVIDUAL sacrifice and struggle needed to achieve that result on the part of the athlete. The stories about how the victorious Olympian got to where he or she did to emerge on top are far bigger than any national rivalry, which is all a medal count in the end perpetuates. If we TRULY wanted to celebrate athletics in the Olympics, they would all race in neutral colors, the five hoops emblazoned on their jerseys, without any one individual getting an advantage from their gear OR their national status...
Bigalke
Eugene, OR
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"but He won a tiebreak because an Australian judge apparently was watching a different competition."
WHAT??????
Dyhard
Germantown, WI
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Good blog, Bigalke. I agree with you to a point but it almost seems as if there should be an asterisk for some of the gymnasts. Not only has their age been questions but also the juding on the Chinese gymnasts have been questioned. It happened to Nastia Liukin last night and another American girl the night before (her first name began with an A I think).
Maybe what's done is done, but we can't forget that there is still a shadow of doubt cast around those medals won by the Chinese gymnasts.
G.O.A.T.
Scranton, PA
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Here's something interesting I read today...
"Why do we care what nation finishes in which place? The Olympics are supposed to celebrate individual achievement and international cooperation; country-based medal counting violates both principles. During the Cold War, the relative United States-Soviet Union medal count was closely watched. Now it's the United States-China standings, with the Huffington Post last week running the banner headline, "CHINA 22, AMERICA 10," referring to gold, as if this was supposed to be shocking. Medal counts don't have any meaning -- they don't tell us anything about the relative strengths, virtues or prospects of different societies. Is Australia a significantly better place than Sweden? Going into Monday, Australia had 33 medals, Sweden three. Those numbers reveal nothing about Australian or Swedish society."
-- Gregg Easterbrook, "Tuesday Morning Quarterback"
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/0808 19&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab6pos1
Bigalke
Eugene, OR
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