Throwdown Tournament XV - Top 3 SS in MLB
rstowe - The NMI Emperor said 02/19, 07:43 AM
List first, arguments 2nd and 3rd.
IN ORDER
1. Jimmy Rollins
2. Hanley Ramirez
3. Jose Reyes
dudeman. said 02/19, 10:23 AM
How did I know you were gonna choose those players?
Anyone else notice they are all n the NL East?
Well, they are all so good, so I'll choose the same players.....but a different order.
1. Hanley Ramirez
2. Jimmy Rollins
3. Jose Reyes
rstowe - The NMI Emperor said 02/19, 10:27 AM
The reason I have Rollins over Ramirez is because Rollins has a track record of being good. Ramirez hasn't proven he can produce at that level season after season. Until he does, my nod goes to Rollins - the reigning MVP.
Can't knock Ramirez' power numbers but Rollins (along with Granderson) put up 20+ HRs, 20+ Doubles, 20+ SBs last season for like the 5th time ever in history.
Without a lineup around him now due to the Cabrera trade, Ramirez' numbers may drop due to not seeing any good pitches.
In 3 years, this order may change, but have to give the nod to the "veteran" over the "rookie" for right now.
dudeman. said 02/19, 11:04 AM
The rookie looks to be one of the most promising players in the MLB today. Because of the Cabrera trade, he will now have to step up. He has power, speed, and now he will learn the qualities of a great leader. Hanley will be the leader of his team, while Rollins has Howard and Utley that can also be the leaders of the Phils.
Stats from '07...Ramirez first:
AVG - .332 vs. .296 (Ramirez)
HR - 29 vs. 30 (Rollins...that's a wash)
RBI - 81 vs. 94 (Rollins)
Runs - 125 vs. 139 (Rollins)
SB - 51 vs. 41 (Ramirez)
Rollins had 716 at-bats....Ramirez had 639, that's 77 more at-bats. So, let me do some math, and figure out what his 716 at-bat rojected stats would be.
Ramirez had a hit every 3 at-bats. He had 212 hits. So, if you divide 77 by 3, you get about 25 more hits. That gives him 237 hits in 716 at-bats... that's a .331 average.
Ramirez had a HR every 22 at-bats, so, if you divide 77 by 22 it equals about 3 more homeruns, that gives him more homeruns than Rollins.
Ramirez had a RBI every 8 at-bats, so if you divide 77 by 8, it equals about 9 more RBIs.
Now we have:
AVG - .331 vs. .296 (Ramirez)
HR - 32 vs. 30 (Ramirez)
RBI - 90 vs. 94 (Rollins)
no space
rstowe - The NMI Emperor said 02/19, 11:10 AM
That's the key dudeman....from your last argument - The rookie looks to be one of the most promising players in the MLB today
Rollins is considered one of the best, he doesn't look to be one of the best like Hanley.
You can't consider a guy entering his 2nd or 3rd season as the best at his position. Prove you can put up those stats in back to back seasons. The best put up great stats over and over again. Hanley might be a flash in the pan (doubt it but could happen). How many great rookies/sophomores never did anything ever again?
How many good pitches will Hanley see with no support in the lineup? You said, Rollins has Howard and Utley. That is my point. Rollins will see more pitches because no one wants to face Howard with Rollins on base.
I do believe that Hanley WILL BE the best SS in the game, it's just way to soon to give him that title. Check back at the end of this season to see how he does.
dudeman. said 02/19, 11:22 AM
Hanley has already proved what he can do...plus, if he has better stats than Rollins than, how isn't he better? Now I know everyone is gonna say that stats aren't everything. Well, he's also the leader and a great player to have in the clubhouse.
Speaking of stats, we resume with the projection of stats.
We left off with the new stats being:
AVG - .331 vs. .296 (Ramirez)
HR - 32 vs. 30 (Ramirez)
RBI - 90 vs. 94 (Rollins)
So, now Ramirez is up 2-1...but, we aren't done.
Ramirez had a run every 5 at-bats. So, if you divide 77 by 5, Ramirez gets 14 more runs...that gives him 139 runs.
Ramirez had a stolen base every 13 at-bats. So, if you divide 77 by 13 Ramirez gets 6 more stolen bases...that gives him 57 stolen bases.
So, the projected 716 at-bat stats would be:
AVG - .331 vs. .296 (Ramirez)
HR - 32 vs. 30 (Ramirez)
RBI - 90 vs. 94 (Rollins)
Runs - 139 vs. 139 (Tie)
Stolen Bases - 57 vs. 41 (Ramirez)
So, Ramirez wins 3-1-1.
Ramirez is the leader of his team. He has the power and speed that any coach would want in a shortstop.
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Comments (58)
Good luck dudeman!
rstowe - The NMI Emperor | 02/19/08, 07:43 AM
Report Offensive CommentSorry for the no difference...they are all just to good. Good luck R-stowe!
dudeman. | 02/19/08, 10:23 AM
Report Offensive CommentThis reminds me when the AL had ARod, Jeter, Nomar and Tejada all at short. You can't go wrong with any of the 3.
rstowe - The NMI Emperor | 02/19/08, 10:28 AM
Report Offensive CommentThis doesn't even count Tulo from Colorado.
rstowe - The NMI Emperor | 02/19/08, 10:29 AM
Report Offensive CommentIts an interesting argument, as Ramirez's production will take a hit sans Cabrera in his lineup. I think he's more talented than Rollins. But thats neither here nor there, making it nowhere.
I'm a Reyes guy. Obviously. Met fan. Cant lie. Last year killed me. I think he was a gold glove lock up until that final month. He was terrible. I admit that. Once he develops the power most scouts assert he has, I think this topic could turn in his favor one day. Maybe not. Just sayin.
Moondizzle...The Original. | 02/19/08, 10:43 AM
Report Offensive Commentrollins over ramirez
Reds=2008 W.S. Champs | 02/19/08, 10:49 AM
Report Offensive CommentWait until the Jeterphiles see this....Jeter is the most besterest person ever...didn't you all get the memo?
In serious,
I'll hold my vote for now.
ArmchairAthlete Is Wall-E | 02/19/08, 10:56 AM
Report Offensive CommentI'm withholding a vote. I think its entirely unfair that rstowe has 3 votes already, with all due respect.
Moondizzle...The Original. | 02/19/08, 10:57 AM
Report Offensive CommentI agree Moon. Hopefully those people who voted will change their vote if dudeman makes better arguments than I do.
rstowe - The NMI Emperor | 02/19/08, 10:58 AM
Report Offensive CommentNo vote since you have the exact same players
NYGiantsSBXLIICHAMPS | 02/19/08, 11:02 AM
Report Offensive CommentMore math to come...I ran out of space....thanks Moon.
dudeman. | 02/19/08, 11:05 AM
Report Offensive CommentGreat TD Dudeman.
NYGiants - yes we have the same players, but a different order. Why don't you do what TDs are for and vote for who has the best arguments.
rstowe - The NMI Emperor | 02/19/08, 11:11 AM
Report Offensive CommentThis is a graet TD R-stowe.
dudeman. | 02/19/08, 11:23 AM
Report Offensive CommentI dislike people who don't vote for stupid reasons... As long as the players aren't in the same order, there is something to argue over, making it able to vote...
DetroitFan* BS: Mich Is 1-1! | 02/19/08, 11:23 AM
Report Offensive Commentgreat*
dudeman. | 02/19/08, 11:24 AM
Report Offensive CommentRemember dude, those numbers were with support around him in the lineup.
Hanley should be great, if he can put up similar numbers this season, then I do believe he takes over the top spot from Rollins, but right now, the reigning MVP has to be on top.
rstowe - The NMI Emperor | 02/19/08, 11:29 AM
Report Offensive CommentYea the blind vote thing is annoying. I must say. Looks like this one is a decent one. I'll wait til the end.
Moondizzle...The Original. | 02/19/08, 11:34 AM
Report Offensive CommentTulo over Reyes.
thejetstolehome: hiatus? | 02/19/08, 11:35 AM
Report Offensive CommentIt is the end Moon.
rstowe - The NMI Emperor | 02/19/08, 11:36 AM
Report Offensive CommentJet - same argument goes for Tulo. Let's see if he can produce again at that level.
rstowe - The NMI Emperor | 02/19/08, 11:37 AM
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