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  • March 07, 2008 08:04 AM ET

Knicks are a mess Tourney - Which PG-PF punch is better, Deron Williams-Carlos Boozer, Chris Paul-David West, or Steve Nash-Amare Stoudemire?

G.O.A.T. (42-12-3) vs dudeman is gone. (31-44-7)
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I shall be choosing the duo of Deron Williams and Carlos Boozer. It's interesting to note that when I compared these three tandems, all their averages together were extremely close. Nonetheless, I'll mention them.

Carlos Boozer- 21.5 pts, 10.8 reb, 3 ast, 1.3 blk
Deron Williams- 19.1 pts, 3 reb, 10.1 ast, 1.13 stl

Obviously, Deron Williams doesn't have the assists average of Nash or the scoring of Paul, but he is a better all-around player. His size will allow him to shoot over the other two shorter guys and also get rebounds over them. He is much better defensively than Nash and I doubt the 2-time MVP could stay with D-Will. David West cannot bang down low with Boozer and although Amare definitely can, he'll have to go help on defense as Williams will be blowing right by Nash on the perimeter.

The reason I say this about D-Will being able to shoot over them is simply. He is 6-3 and 205 pounds while Nash is 6-3 and 178 pounds. Chris Paul is only 6 foot and 175 pounds.

Now I bring you to David West's weight: 240 lbs. Boozer's? 266 lbs. You tell me who would have the advantage in the post.

The Hornets duo couldn't go inside and the Suns can't guard on the perimeter.


I'm gonna go with Chris Paul and David West.

Chris Paul vs. Deron Williams. Stats from this current season. ( ) = winner of category. CP3 first:

PPG: 20.9 vs. 19.1 (CP3)
RPG: 4.0 vs. 3.0 (CP3)
APG: 10.9 vs. 10.1 (CP3)
FG%: 48.5 vs. 51.2 (Williams)
FT%: 87.6 vs. 79.4 (CP3)
3PT%: 36.5 vs. 39.9 (Williams)
TO: 2.5 vs. 3.5 (CP3 wins by having less)

CP3 wins in 5-7 of those categories. His ball-handling is much better than Williams, as he is averaging one full turnover less than Williams. This is key for a point guard. Supposedly Williams is stronger than him, CP3 averages 1 more rebound than Williams. Not to mention he has the highest SPG in the league: 2.7

David West vs. Carlos Boozer. Stats from this current season. ( ) = winner of category. West first:

PPG: 19.7 vs. 21.5 (Boozer)
RPG: 9.0 vs. 10.8 (Boozer)
APG: 2.3 vs. 3.0 (Boozer)
FG%: 46.9 vs. 54.1 (Boozer)
FT%: 82.8 vs. 73.0 (West)
TO: 2.2 vs. 2.6 (West)
BPG: 1.3 vs. .4 (West)
PF: 2.7 vs. 3.7 (West wins because he has less)

They are even 4-4. Personal Fouls is important, because a player in foul trouble like Boozer is, always hurts the team. I'm pretty sure you meant to write 1.3 SPG. More to come.


I'd like to see West and Paul get rebounds consistantly off D-Will and Boozer. Personally, I don't think it would happen. Yes, David West averages 9 rebounds a game but, as I mentioned before, Boozer has a 26-pound weight advantage on West. Add to that Williams's 3-inch and 30-pound advantages and you'll have trouble.

Okay, now these two tandems have met three times this year. Mine has won twice and yours has won once. In the two losses, David West averaged only 15 points, and 9 rebounds. Chris Paul averaged 11 points and 6 assists. Did I mention those two losses were by 22 points and 28 points?

The next advantage I have over you would be my shooting. Deron Williams is a better shooter than Chris Paul. That is evidenced by D-Will's better percentages from the field and from deep.

Now, a lot of coaches will want players to get to the line early and often in a game. I'd say Deron Williams does a good job of that as he gets fouled 13.7% of the time. He is very good at drawing fouls. Boozer is up there as well as he gets fouled 13.1% of the time.

Paul only gets there 7.8% of the time and West gets there only 11.1% of the time. My guys are getting to the line and converting.


"I'd like to see West and Paul get rebounds consistently off D-Will and Boozer."

Well, I think Boozer has a better low-post prescence, but take a look at the head to head comparisons between CP3 and D-Will this year from the 3 games that the Hornets have played against the Jazz.

1st game:

Paul: 6 rebounds
D-Will: 3 rebounds

2nd game:

Paul: 4 rebounds
D-Will: 3 rebounds

3rd game:

Paul: 4 rebounds
D-Will: 2 rebounds

CP3 has more rebounds than D-Will in EVERY head to head matchup this season. So, your comment that you would like to see Paul get more rebounds has already happened.

"My guys are getting to the line and converting. "

Yes, they are converting, but not as much as efficiently as Paul and West.

West has a better outside shot than Boozer, and is a better free-throw shooter. So, if he decides to drive to the bucket, his chances to get fouled are increased, and if he does get fouled, than he'll have a better chance of making his free-throws.


My main point is that your guys are undersized compared to mine.

"So, if he decides to drive to the basket..." - If, if, if. He's not though. In fact, he is 12-16 from the line in those three games, which is below his average.

West may be a better shooter than Boozer, but is he a good one? Not at all. He shoots only 26% from long-range and Boozer is much more efficient from the field (54% to 47%).

Next, I would like to mention that in 2.5 minutes LESS per game, Boozer averages MORE points, rebounds, and assists.

Deron Williams is definitely a better shooter than Chris Paul. However, unlike West, he is actually a good shooter at 40% from deep.

In their three meetings:
D-Will from the field: 25-36
CP3 from the field: 13-38

D-Will from three: 5-7
CP3 from three: 1-6

I think these numbers say a lot. Paul's shot selection always has been somewhat shaky and this proves it. Against a bigger defender like Williams, Paul's FG% goes way down. 13-38 and 1-6 are absolutely horrendous.

I'll take the better shooter. I'll take the guy who will shoot good high-percentage shots late in games. I'll take the guy who is practically unstoppable in the low-post.


Forfeited Turn

March 7, 2008  04:10 PM ET

I'll have to get to this later...sorry!

March 8, 2008  10:11 AM ET

PF: 2.7 vs. 3.7 (West wins because he has less)

Why the heck would you have to put Personal Fouls as a stat.

G.O.A.T. could use this against you, and make Boozer look better, because he fouls more, which means he would leave the game more often, than West, and he still has superior statistics.

March 8, 2008  10:41 AM ET

Yeah, Boozer has West in all the big important stat categories. West is winning the dumb ones like personal fouls and turnovers. West and Boozer average basically the same amount of turnovers. I think dudeman was just looking for a last stat that would help his cause and make it even at 4-4.

March 8, 2008  03:15 PM ET

^ So sue me. I wanted too make my argument better...

March 8, 2008  03:31 PM ET

That's fine by me, but don't expect for it to go unnoticed and without repercussion.

March 9, 2008  01:15 AM ET

^ So sue me. I wanted too make my argument better...
dudeman ST21 BS-CB NIU | 03/08/08, 03:15 PM

I can't afford a lawyer...

March 9, 2008  01:49 AM ET

^ So sue me. I wanted too make my argument better...
dudeman ST21 BS-CB NIU | 03/08/08, 03:15 PM

I can't afford a lawyer...
#2 DetroitFan* BS Is Verlander | 03/09/08, 01:15 AM
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Than shut up and don't complain...JK

March 9, 2008  01:51 AM ET

UNC UNC UNC UNC UNC

Sorry Boozer

Hornets Love.

March 9, 2008  08:03 PM ET

I'll vote in this after the dud's 3rd argument.

March 9, 2008  08:54 PM ET

Wow, I would have picked Nash-Amare. But out of you guy's, I'm going with G.O.A.T.

March 10, 2008  07:53 AM ET

Noob...err, I mean Cheezhead, the reason I didn't pick Nash and Amare is because of the defensive liability of Steve Nash. That was my only reason, but it was a big one in my opinion.

March 10, 2008  10:25 AM ET

Based on stats it's Boozer-Williams. West is a nice PF but he's not Boozer.

Vote to G.O.A.T.

March 10, 2008  11:37 AM ET

Goat owns this argument.

March 10, 2008  12:26 PM ET

G.O.A.T. brought the stronger argument here... my vote's going left...

 
March 10, 2008  04:26 PM ET

honestly, the stat comparisons among nash-stoudemire, williams-boozer, and paul-west this season have been a wash. however, in rebounding, stoudemire had to deal with marion/shaq (9.9/11.3 rpg) absorbing some of his numbers and west had to deal with chandler (12.3 rpg) absorbing some of his. boozer only has okur (7.0 rpg) to deal with, and that guy floats out to the perimeter most of the time anyway.

but dudeman didnt mention any of that, plus d-will's jazz is 2-1 against either team, so my vote goes left.

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