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  • April 30, 2008 03:18 AM ET

Mavs or Suns...who's in more trouble???

Odenator...I'm Baack!!! (11-2-1) vs Mr. Tie= Peach (332-678-132)
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It's late...let's pick the team first and then argue second and third.

I pick the Suns as the team in more trouble.


HAD TO START ARUMENT BECAUSE I WON'T BE AROUND A COMPUTER TOMMOROW SORRY ODENATOR REALLY.
Anyways, I would havet to say the Mavericks. The Jason Kidd trade was worse. Shawn Marion did not want to be on the Suns anymore because he was not getting the BIG contract from them this past summer. Shaq we all know is not the same. Kidd had more of a job to do in Dallas running point and giving away a promising player like Deven Harris who was younger. The Mavericks losing in the first round to the new power house Hornet's is worse then the Suns losing to the defending champ Spurs with the 6th man of the year and the best powerforward in the game. Avery's seat is burning up in Dallas. The Mavericks have lost 9 straight road playoff games dating back to the Finals with the Miami where they were up 2-0!


This is a tough one, as I am a fan of both teams. My previous TD's had Suns and Mavs winning their 1st rounds and I even thought that Suns would face Celtics in the Finals. Good thing I didn't bet the house.

These teams are similar in many ways...

Offensive style of play, weak defense, not being able to get over the hump, etc...

As a result, the underachievement undoubtedly played tricks on the psyche of both teams, and now the coaches are on the hot seats.

Both teams also made big gambles that blew up in their faces. All the talk about Kidd and Shaq being better next year due to having training camp is a bunch of crap due to their ages. Unless of course, they both hook up with Jose Canseco.

As for damage control, Kidd will be in the last year of his contract next year, so he actually has trade values.

And Shaq? We are talking about $40 mil over the next two years, and NO ONE will touch that. And no, Isiah is no longer with the Knicks.

For this simple reason, and the fact that Shaq is a worse fit than Kidd in terms of fitting their teams style of play, I am saying PHX has a bigger problem on their hands.


The Maverick's have lost two opening round series to Golden St. and New Orleans. Yes, CP3 is runnerup for the mvp but the Mavericks are playoff BUSTS. I hate to say that liking Dirk as a player. Yes, Kidd does have trade value but Shawn Marion would have left after this summer anyway so the Shaq trade wasn't as bad in my opinion. The Spurs bring it to the suns what can i say.

*The Suns have weapons in Steve Nash and Amare. They can get a solid small forward like Carmelo Anthony and punish or somebody to that nature. Probably won't happen but you know what i mean. Who does Dallas have? Just Dirk? I mean they need to go through the steps of rebuilding because Dirk alone cannot DO IT. I would rather have Nash at point any day and Amare is younger then Dirk. *

How am i losing this?

Dallas

But Odenator has a better argument

Wait till Underdog begs for votes at end of his arguments

LOL
djroxalot: My Block, Tupac | 04/30/08, 05:33 PM
**** not funny.

Back to the story at hand. The Mavs have left prematurely the last two years while the Suns did too but had the task in beating the mighty Spurs. For that i would have to say the Maverick's are in a worse spot.


The point of this TD is not where these two teams have been, since both are out of the playoffs. Not to mention that Avery is gone and Dantoni is most likely next.

The point is damage control...as in which team is harder to fix. If both teams decide to blow up the roster, which is easier to do?

Dallas? Well, they have a softy PF, an over the hill PG, a SF who likes to smoke weeds, no coach, and an over excited owner. But as I said, at least Kidd is in his final year of his contract and he is tradeable. I can see an up and coming team like Portland trade for Kidd just to have him get the team into the playoff to gain experience and help mentor young PG's like Blake and Rodriguez. With Kidd gone, Dallas is pretty easy to rebuild without having to blow everything up.

Phoenix? All I can see is how Shaq and the Suns stuck with each other next year. In two years, Shaq will be tradeable like Kidd is next year. So that means the Suns will be forced to be a pretender a whole year while young teams like Jazz, Blazers, and Hornets will pass them in relevancy.

That is why I say Phoenix is in more trouble...because it will take them longer to rebuild.


That is why I say Phoenix is in more trouble...because it will take them longer to rebuild. Odenator...I'll be baack! said

Rebuild? They have Steve Nash and Amare. They only need 1 or 2 more above average players and they are in there.

AVERY JOHNSON GOT FIRED TODAY AND I'M LOSING THIS TD. THIS SHOWS FANNATION AND IT'S GROUP FOLLOWERS AT BEST. MY HATE FAN CLUB IS VOTING LEFT BUT IT'S COOL, I'LL SURVIVE.

Comments (29) Add A Comment

April 30, 2008  03:31 AM ET
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ARUMENT

SORRY I CAN'T SPELL. LOLOLOLOL HAHAHAHHAHA

April 30, 2008  03:33 AM ET
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The Mavericks have lost 9 straight road playoff games dating back to the Finals with the Miami where they were up 2-0!

DATING BACK OT THE FINALS WITH THE MIAMI HEAT WHERE THEY WERE UP 2-0. SORRY I'M TIRED CHECK THE TIME.

ODENATOR I HOPE I DIDN'T RUIN YOUR TD. NOT JOKING

April 30, 2008  03:34 AM ET
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VOTE UNDERDOGZ LATER AND SHAQ TRIED BUT HE IS NOT THE SAME. BIG UPS TO BIG DIESAL BC YOU KNOW IN HIS HEART HE WANTED TO GO DEEPER. IT MIGHT BE TIME TO THING RETIREMENT BIG BOI. SHAQ WE LOVE YOU.

April 30, 2008  03:36 AM ET
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Odenator...I'll be baack! said 04/30, 03:18 AM
It's late..

MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY. I CAN'T SPELL. SPURS JUST HAVE PHOENIX'S NUMBER.

April 30, 2008  04:18 AM ET
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Good argument Underdog. One of your best ever..

April 30, 2008  04:19 AM ET
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Dude, no sweat about having to argue right away, but stop with the all caps already.

April 30, 2008  07:23 AM ET
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the suns are out and there coach is gone. i like steve nash but hes getting older as well as shaq. they will be in trouble if they dont get some young talent and a good coach.

April 30, 2008  10:21 AM ET
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Both teams have been eliminated, but odenator has the better argument thus far.

April 30, 2008  11:06 AM ET
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Dallas By far they have no talent outside of Dirk. Terry, Howard, Kidd, Stack, Damp and Avery pack your bags. The Suns Atleast still have a very good young player in Amare

April 30, 2008  12:10 PM ET
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underdogg had a great opening argument in saying that the mavs dealt to much and that they lost to the up and coming hornets while the suns lost to the defending champs

April 30, 2008  02:37 PM ET
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The Mavs and this is coming from a die hard Mavs fan... we are screwed. Avery's gone, no one on that team is worth a crap besides Dirk. Howard has way to much confidence in his horrible jumpshot and he has made himself untradeable with his stupid comments. I could go on for ever about this :(

April 30, 2008  04:16 PM ET
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Underdogs, not only was Marion not getting his big contract, but he was also sick of being the third wheel in a small market. Dealing with the star power of Nash and Stoudemire was a problem with him. This problem was well-documented in the book, ":07 Seconds or Less". Great book if you get a chance to read it.

Kidd, in my opinion, didn't hurt the Suns so much as Shaq did the Suns. Phoenix's loss in Game 5 could be summed up in two ways: too many turnovers down the stretch and missed free throws by the Big Diesel while they were playing Hack-a-Shaq.

Very good topic, Odenator. I would have loved to argue against it. It's an interesting topic because I believe BOTH teams are in serious trouble the next few years since they both invested (somewhat) in veterans in order to win in the postseason (see Shaq and Kidd) while getting rid of nice young(er) talent (see Marion and Harris).

Based on the arguments, I'm going to vote left for now. Odenator did a fantastic job in bringing up the contract situation.

April 30, 2008  04:22 PM ET
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I think this TD should be argued and voted by everyone instead of me and Underdog. Every NBA fan should have an opinion on this TD. I don't even care if I win or lose because as I said, I like both teams but they are both screwed big time.

April 30, 2008  04:22 PM ET
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The Suns are CLEARLY in more trouble due to their ownership. How so? Robert Sarver is cheap and unwilling to go over the salary cap to pay the luxury tax for talent. As such, the Suns trade away their best defender, transition player, and four time all star for an old Shaq and his asinine contract. Oh, but does it ever get better!

* The Suns sent Kurt Thomas and first round draft picks to SEA for an exception they didn't use and let expire. This gives us no opportunity to look for a talented or even serviceable backup for Nash.

* The Suns trade away James Jones, an deadeye shooter and decent defender (and a pick) for cash to get under the cap.

* Since ATL made the playoffs this year, the pick from the Joe Johnson/Boris Diaw deal will NOT be a lottery pick and will likely be shopped to another team.

The Suns are screwed, and there's not much hope in sight. I'm a solid Suns fan too, and nothing hurts me more than this. I don't know if a change in coaching is going to help much. I think a change in ownership would be a good start. If you want to win, you have to pay for it. At least DAL has that in their favor.

April 30, 2008  04:24 PM ET
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Thanks GOAT. Apreciate the comments.

The dominals have started to fall.....Avery has been fired!

April 30, 2008  04:29 PM ET
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* The Suns trade away James Jones, an deadeye shooter and decent defender (and a pick) for cash to get under the cap.

Sky...the pick you reference above turned out to be Rudy Fernandez for Portland. He could have been PHX's answer for Ginobli.

As I said to you in the past, don't do anything irrational the next few days okay?

April 30, 2008  04:31 PM ET
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Neither team is in that much trouble. However, the Suns could be in the most amount of trouble due to some of their past moves. The trading of draft picks is a huge problem.

Vote to Odenator.

April 30, 2008  04:34 PM ET
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Skybill, after reading your comment, I worry for you. You seem, to say the least, physco. Take it easy. haha, but you did make some valid points.

April 30, 2008  04:35 PM ET
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Oden: I thought that's who it was but couldn't remember for certain. I'm just sickened by it all and wish Jerry Colangelo had not sold the team to that ingrate. If anyone should be fired, it should be Kerr. I do recall after the team was made that he said he'd take the heat for it if the O'Neal deal didn't work out and would accept that he was an idiot.

Steve-O, here's your sign.

 
April 30, 2008  04:37 PM ET
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GOAT: I'm completely rational in my hatred of Sarver and his cheapass antics. Had Jerry still owned the team, this would NOT have occurred. No worries though... guess I'll have to focus on baseball now. :(

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