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Oso's back-Sort of won the Throwdown.

Oso's back-Sort of

Throwndowns: 138
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Eugene, OR
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Throwndowns: 37
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Arctic Circle, NP
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NMI Tournament III - Finals Round (3rd Place Match) NFL: Best Defensive End - 1970-1999

Bigalke said 05/08, 11:26 AM
Since the merger of the NFL and AFL, football has seen many top-shelf defensive ends ply their trade in the trenches of NFL stadia. From Deacon Jones and Mean Joe Greene of yesteryear to Bruce Smith and Michael Strahan today, tough pass-rushing ends have always proven crucial to a team's success...

But one reigns head and shoulders above all other ends. With 192.5 sacks during the throwdown time period, thirteen straight Pro Bowls from 1986 until 1998, and eight first-team All Pro selections, this defensive end blended speed, strength and a surprising dash of fair play to what is often perceived as a position of headhunters...

Weighing in at 6'5", 291 pounds, this 2006 Hall of Fame inductee is hands-down the greatest ever to prowl the left side of the defensive line. The teams on which he played consistently ranked top-five in yards allowed each play; he averaged nearly a sack a game (0.891/game) during his career, and averaged OVER a sack a game during his first eight years in the league with Philadelphia...

Haven't figured out about whom I speak yet?

They call him...

The Minister of Defense...

Reginald
Howard
White

Oso's back-Sort of said 05/09, 10:05 AM
You are too cruel Bigalke. I can't believe you left me with Bruce Smith as my best option!

I mean he *only* has 200 sacks, 1224 tackles, 43 forced fumbles, 15 fumble recoveries, 2 safeties, and 1 touchdown.

Dang Bigalke, you're too cruel.

If my facetious tone hasn't come through to the voting public yet, let me state the rest of Bruce's accomplishments that prove he is by far the premiere DE of the 1970's-90's:

11 Pro Bowls, and in 1 of them he was the MVP.

12 All Pro selections

He is on the 80's and 90's all decade team.

2X AP D-Player of the Year and 4X UPI D-Player.

Not to mention a 2X George Halas Trophy winner for outstanding Defensive Player of the year.

You're too cruel Bigalke. But I will manage somehow.

Bigalke said 05/09, 10:52 AM
Now let's not get ahead of ourselves. 29.0 of Smith's 200 sacks came AFTER the 1999 deadline on this. Let's stick to stats in the timeline offered...

For convenience, here ARE the statlines for these two up to 1999:

WHITE: 216 GP, 192.5 SK, 3 INT, 32 FF, 19 FR, 1033 TKL, 2 TD, 0 SFTY
SMITH: 217 GP, 171.0 SK, 2 INT, 35 FF, 14 FR, 941 TKL, 1 TD, 1 SFTY

They played a near-identical number of games during the timeline... but White got 21.5 more sacks, nearly a hundred more tackles, had one more interception (not a DE strong suit, obviously) and one more touchdown... and while Smith has a safety and three more forced fumbles, White in the end had a larger effect on a greater percentage of plays...

You want to go into accolades? Here's how they break down...

WHITE: 13 PB (1986 MVP), 13 All-Pro (8 1st Tm), 2x D-Player of Year (1987, 1998)
SMITH: 11 PB (1987 MVP), 12 All-Pro (8 1st Tm), 2x D-Player of Year (1990, 1996)

You mentioned the NFL 1980s and 1990s All-Decade Teams with Smith... you can find Reggie there as well. Where can you NOT find Smith, though -- but you CAN find White? The NFL 75th-Anniversary All Time Team...

Smith is good; White is empirically better...

Oso's back-Sort of said 05/10, 10:08 AM
Empirically? I think you go overboard, not to mention you omit several key facts. By 1999 this is what it looked like:

Bruce Smith: 1054 Tackles, 171 sacks, and 35 forced fumbles.

Reggie White: 1033 tackles, 192.5 sacks, 32 forced fumbles.

Reggie was at the end of his career by 1999. Nothing left in the tank at all, while Smith was on his way to 4 more years of strong production.

It should be noted that Smith is the only DE to post 10+ sacks in 10 consecutive seasons. Something Reggie never did.

You mentioned Reggie and Bruce's AP DPOY, but neglected to mention Bruce's 4 UPI DPOY and the Halas tropy. Does Reggie have anything resembling that on his resume? No.

Reggie might have more numbers in sacks. But Smith had him beat in tackles and forced fumbles, not to mention DPOY and Halas awards.

Smith has the edge on Reggie.

Bigalke said 05/10, 11:16 AM
No, Oso... your tackle stats for Smith INCLUDE 2000-2003. It is not fair in the parameters of the throwdown to count Smith's time in Washington, as it falls outside of the dates allowed. Look at the numbers above in my last argument. They are ALL calculated out for these two UP UNTIL 1999... Smith has one MORE game in that breakdown, yet has 21.5 fewer sacks, 92 fewer tackles, & only three more forced fumbles and a single safety to bridge the difference. White affected the outcome of a greater percentage of plays...

When you discount White as having been at the end of his career, you also fail to mention two things. First, he already used two years of his career playing for the Memphis Showboats of the USFL. While his stats don't count from this time, they sure do explain why Smith played four more years. Yet, if you want to talk longevity, which of these two were amassing SIXTEEN SACKS as a 37-year-old?

Reggie...

Who missed more time with injury?

Bruce...

So Smith got one Halas Trophy more than White... but Reggie's got awards Bruce doesn't. I don't see Smith on any ALL-TIME rosters sanctioned by the NFL...

Don't get me wrong, Bruce was good... Reggie's simply better...

Oso's back-Sort of said 05/10, 03:50 PM
Your stats are askew.

Check: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitBr00.htm.

During 1985-99 Smith had 1054 tackles, including 113 assists.

You negate the greater number of forced fumbles but somehow Reggie influenced the greater percentage of plays?

If we talk percentages, then Smith's higher tackles, forced fumbles, and safeties influenced the game more.

Sure, White went out with 1 big year. But Smith lasted longer in the NFL and produced much more than White over the long haul.

White has awards that Smith doesn't? Which? He doesn't. Truth is that Smith has more Halas Trophies, Defensive Player selections from AP and UPI combined.

You mention that Smith isn't on any NFL All Time teams. Then what were the 80's and 90's all decade teams? You have to be a high caliber player to make a team in 2 decades! I don't see you mentioning Reggie on those. So the edge goes to Smith.

Smith did more for his team in the playoffs, leading the Bills to 6 AFC East titles and 4 AFC Championships where Smith amassed 12 sacks and 1 safety in post season play. Smith produced where it counted, in the playoffs.

White was good.

But Bruce Smith is THE best DE of that era.

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NMI Tournament III - Finals Round (3rd Place Match) NFL: Best Defensive End - 1970-1999

Bigalke beat Oso's back-Sort of 8 to 6

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