Which team ousted in the first round of the playoffs will go the farthest of all the 1s-round losers next year?
dudeman. said 05/08, 05:58 PM
Me and my opponent, Paddy, have already taken our picks. He took the Hawks and I took the Rockets. And now, we argue.
The Rockets will go the farther than the Hawks for the following reasons:
1. The Rockets will have a healthy Yao Ming next season, and all things considered, they did pretty darn well without him last season, who knows how well they will do with him?
2. The Spurs and Mavericks aren't looking so good right now, and it will most likely be a two team race atop the Southwest Division in '09. Keep in mind that the Rockets were only a game behind both the Spurs and the Hornets for the division title.
3. Rookies Luis Scola and Carl Landry will be better next year because they already have a year of experience under their belts, and both were considered for ROY.
4. The Hawks had the 8th seed last year, and I believe that even if they got a high seed, such as the 3rd seed (that would have called for a 1st round matchup against the Raptors) they wouldn'tve gotten very far. They aren't on a level as high as many of the other teams in the East, while the Rockets are part of the cream of the crop.
Let's Throwdown, Paddy!
Paddy26 said 05/08, 09:52 PM
Always a pleasure, dudeman.
Here is why I think the Hawks will go further than the Rockets next year:
First, the Hawks are blooming with young talent. Their starting lineup is all former 1st round draft picks who are now panning out for the Hawks. They have a veteran presence in Mike Bibby. They have a star in Josh Johnson. They also have blossoming high picks Josh Smith, Marvin Williams, and Al Horford.
Second, the Rockets are basically a two-man team, and Yao keeps getting injured. Now that Dikembe Mutumbo may FINALLY retire, the Rockets have no backup for Yao, who seeminly gets injured every year.
Scola and Landry are both just decent role players with not much upside.
Finally, there is, of course, the fact that the Rockets play in the much tougher Western Conference, and in the toughest division. The Hawks could end up very high next year considering the lack of quality teams in the East. The Rockets have to duke it out with the best of the best regularly.
The Rockets had a VERY mediocre record despite the 22-game winning streak. They were kind of a fluke team that went on a hot streak.
dudeman. said 05/09, 06:33 PM
No, the Rockets aren't a two-man team. How could the Rockets still get the 5th seed in the West (be only 1 game away from about the 2nd or 3rd seed), without Yao Ming if they were a one-man team?
The Rockets are one of the deepest teams in the league. They have to stars in T-Mac and Yao and than they have a great bench. Scola and Landry have great upside. Both are young, Scola is a defensive-minded player and Landry is a great scorer.
Scola - 10.3 PPG, 6.4 RPG, 1.3 APG
Landry - 8.1 PPG, 4.9 APG, 61.6 FG%
Other key players include:
Shane Battier - 9.3 PPG, 5.1 RPG, 1.9 APG
Rafaer Alston - 13.1 PPG, 5.3 APG, 1.3 SPG
Dikembe Mutombo (they say he will every year) - 3 PPG, 5.1 RPG, 1.2 BPG
Bobby Jackson - 7.7 PPG, 1.9 APG, 35.8 3PT%
As you can see, the Rockets have 4 quality veterans, 2 good, young players besides T-Mac and Yao.
The Hawks have many young teams in the East to go up against, and many of their young stars have already reached their potential.
The Rockets will do better than the Hawks next year.
Paddy26 said 05/10, 12:38 PM
Here are the best stats from all those players you just listed:
13.1 PPG, 5.3 APG, 6.4 RPG
That is the BEST of each category. As you can see, that is still a mediocre player. I don't see any of those players nearly as good as T-Mac or Yao, while the Hawks have such an even balance of skill players.
Lets compare starting lineups
PG- Me, Bibby You, Alston Edge: Me
SG- Me, Johnson You, T-Mac Edge: You
SF- Me, M. Williams You, Battier Edge: Me
PF- Me, Smith You, Landry/Scola Edge: Me
C- Me, Horford You, Yao Edge: You
My bench includes many good players such as Childress and Zaza Pachulia. You have Mutumbo, Scola or Landry, and Bobby Jackson.
I think I have the edge head-to-head, especially with the Rockets injury problems. Throw in the fact that I have the weaker conference, better year for the Hawks
dudeman. said 05/10, 04:53 PM
1. Marvin Williams is NOT better than Shane Battier:
Here are some stats (Shane 1st):
PPG: 9.1 vs. 14.8 (Williams)
RPG: 5.1 vs. 5.7 (Williams)
APG: 1.9 vs. 1.7 (Shane)
BPG: 1.1 vs. 0.4 (Shane)
FG%: 42.8 vs. 46.2 (Williams)
FT%: 74.3 vs. 82.2 (Williams)
3PT%: 37.7 vs. 10.0 (Shane)
SPG: 1.0 vs. 1.0 (Equal)
TO: 1.0 vs. 1.6 (Shane)
Well, I went through all the stats, and the result is 4-4-1 for each player. But, the big difference is the value of Battier to the Rockets. He is widely considered one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA. He helps keep the defensive intensity of the Rockets going.
2. "My bench includes many good players such as Childress and Zaza Pachulia. You have Mutumbo, Scola or Landry, and Bobby Jackson."
Um, isn't 4 good players better than 2?
3. The Rockets have the better all-around team, and even though they are in a tougher conference, they have a team built to beat anyone in the playoffs.
Paddy26 said 05/10, 10:29 PM
Looking at your stats makes me find Williams even more favorable compared to Battier for these reasons:
1. The 2 major categories are both in Williams's favor.
2. Williams is a MUCH better scorer.
3. Half of the categories Shane won in were either very close or almost irrelevant for that position.
"Um, isn't 4 good players better than 2?"
I could easily list more than 4 players on the Hawks bench, but I was showing that my best bench players were better than yours.
Here are my final points on why the Hawks will do better than the Rockets next year:
1. The injuries- The Hawks have next to none, the Rockets have a ton.
2. The Hawks are much more well-balanced. A quality player at all positions.
3. The Western Conference is WAY better than the East.
4. The Hawks just showed that they can just about beat possibly the BEST team in the league.
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Comments (4)
I gotta wait for more arguments to vote on this...
Dyhard -- Badgers/Brewers won | 05/08/08, 10:12 PM
Report Offensive Commentleaning right...
stecky: pirate hooker | 05/08/08, 10:18 PM
Report Offensive CommentMy vote is going to Dudeman for now but could change pending on the final argument by Paddy.
I think the Hawks are in better shape, but I liked Dudeman's arguments a little more. The injury Yao suffered this year combined with the offseason surgeries of T-Mac, Alston, and Battier can't be good for Houston.
G.O.A.T. | 05/10/08, 05:07 PM
Report Offensive CommentThanks GOAT.
dudeman. | 05/10/08, 05:12 PM
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