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  • May 19, 2008 06:16 PM ET

The Packers: NFC North Champs (again)

3Dirty1 (1-1-0) vs EagleHater: Goodbye, FN (84-36-3)
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This is a team who went 13-3 a season ago. They have improved internally in every position except for QB. Evey other team in the division has holes that the Packers do not. I just can't see another team that could win the NFC North.

Bears- Offense??

Lions- Secondary?? Running Game???

Vikings- Secondary??? Passing Game??


I'll take the Vikings.

You kinda proved my point for me on the Packers... they've improved everywhere EXCEPT QB. Not only did they decline, but they dropped off a damn cliff! Brett Favre WAS that team last year. He held together the whole offense. He led the team. With no Favre, the Pack are cooked.

Now, don't try any of that Aaron Rogers BS. Rodgers is NOT the answer. he is never looked more than average in his limited playing time, and in fact, frequently looks BAD, or gets himself hurt. And let's not forget that the Packers drafted a QB in the second round, as well as another QB who happened to be the MVP of the National Championship game. On defense, they have issues too. Sure, they have a deep D-line. However, the left end spot is looking iffy. KGB is an aging situational pass rusher, and with the trading of Corey Williams, clearly their best backup, DE depth is weak. The secondary is also questionable, with average at best safeties and a pair of old corners who have wilted when facing top tier WRs (see: TO and Plaxico Burress for more information.)

The Vikings, on the other hand, have really upgraded. They added the NFL's top pass rusher last year to an already great D.


The QB is usually the most important thing to a team and i Favre was great. However what people don't understand is that this whole team was built for Aaron Rodgers.

The packers don't need a great quarterback to make their offense work. Their wide receivers led the league in yards after catch. You don't need a great quarterback to throw a 5 yard slant.

Aaron Rodgers has never looked good??
How about 19 straight completions against the Dallas Cowboys or not throwing a pick in 150 straight completions.

the secondary didn't struggle against "elite" receivers as you stated, they struggle against tall, fast, receivers. Usually over 6'3" and 4.5 speed. How many wide receivers possess that?? Two. And you named them. So they struggled against two of them and they were games they almost won.

Let me fix something for you. The Vikings added the NFL's top pass rusher last year to an already great RUN D. Their secondary is terrible and anyone can pass on them. And Jared Allen against the Pack last season had 0 sacks and 1 TFL. Yep great.


Did you watch the Cowboys game? The Cowboys did not focus on Rodgers AT ALL once Favre went down. With Grant busting that long run early, they focused about 95% on the run and dared Rodgers to beat them, which he clearly did not. 19 straight completions against a soft zone mean little to me.
Also, do NOT demean the system of the Packers- it is harder than it looks. The WCO offense the Pack run requires a very smart QB with an arm that can break your fingers on a slant.
Know the 1 stat that says it all about Rodgers? It's the fact he has more career turnovers than total TDs.
Also, the secondary DOES struggle against elite WRs, and TO and Plax were the only 2 greats they saw... andthey allowed over 300 yards receiving in 2 games.

Also, let me fix something for YOU. PASS RUSHER means he is great against the PASS. Last I checked, every sack ever recorded came against the pass. Know what the best way to take pressure off a secondary is? Getting to the QB. Allen DOES upgrade the best DL in the NFL into what could be an alltime great DL. He does help the run. But combined with two young CBs (Griffin and McCauley) who are really only starting to develop and a PB safety, Vikes'll be good


Well I guess teams can focus on Grant all they want because if Favre didn't start that Dallas Game terribly, the Pack would have won.

Lets see with the Wide Recievers, we played Roy Williams . (3 catches 38 yards.)

Steve Smith (1 catch 10 yards)

Your right we struggle against "Elite" receivers.

Do you not get that Chad Clifton completely shut down Jared Allen, when they played. Also, the Pack's offense makes it hard to get sacks. 3 step drops and quick passes make it almost impossible to get a sack.

A pro bowl safety??
Who is that Darren Sharper??
Yea maybe if this was 2000

Rodgers is as accurate as they come. If 19 straight completions against an NFL team isn't enough how about the 22 straight against USC. He may have more Picks than TD's but he hasn't thrown one since the 2006 training camp.

He is learning.


Uh, I hate to tell you, but Sharper was a Pro Bowler LAST year. Sorry that you find 60+ tackles with 4 INTs and a TD so ho hum, but clearly he impressed a lot of NFL people to make the PB.
Now, this 3 step drop thing is all in your mind. The Cowboys sacked Rodgers three times in ONE HALF. Seeing as Rodgers played all over 2 quarters last year and still absorbed one sixth of the sacks, maybe you need to take a look at his mobility.

Anyway, onto the Vikings.
Let's look at the O-line- It is about as good as they come in the NFL. Not bad protection, and blocking that is beyond fabulous for the run. Speaking of the run, the Vikings were far and away the best running team in the NFL last year, despite having their main back as a ROOKIE. You can expect 1700+ yards from AD this year, and expect 180 ypg rushing, with around 25-30 TDs.
RBs: Advantage Vikes by a mile.
The WRs actually are decent. Rice showed promise as a rook
WR: Pack win
QB: This has been debated, but Tarvaris has more experience. I'd call it a push.
DL: The Vikings could have the best D-line ever. They have one of the most dominant DT duos ever, plus a premier pass rusher. Allen will have 20 sacks, or both DTs WILL have10+

Comments (19) Add A Comment

May 19, 2008  06:23 PM ET
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ez win unless he blows it

May 19, 2008  06:24 PM ET
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yeah for right. QB happens to lead teams

May 19, 2008  06:26 PM ET
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My point on the QBs, if it wasn't clear enough, is that the coaches and front office obviously have little faith in Rodgers long term by pursuing Brohm and Flynn like that.

May 19, 2008  06:35 PM ET
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Aarom Rodgers is not the answer, very true. But Tavarias Jackson isnt either.

May 19, 2008  06:36 PM ET
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Marc called, said he wants to get back together.

May 19, 2008  06:49 PM ET
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Rodgers has look good in his limited playing time. Don't know how you can say he hasn't. Staying healthy will be key.

May 19, 2008  06:49 PM ET
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"The packers don't need a great quarterback to make their offense work."

Um...neither do the Vikings...ever heard of either Adrian Peterson or CHESTER TAYLOR!?!?

This might sound incredibly weird, and everyone will think I'm crazy, but Adrian Peterson isn't the key to this offense, it's Chester Taylor...

Who does all of the dirty work--spelling AD, pass blocking, 3rd down back, goalline carries--and can still go for 160 and 3 when the team needs him to?

May 19, 2008  07:00 PM ET
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How can you say the packers will lose with no QB, but the vikings can? Rodgers cant be much worse than jackson.

May 19, 2008  07:05 PM ET
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How can you say the packers will lose with no QB, but the vikings can? Rodgers cant be much worse than jackson.

FanMan- back to 500. | 05/19/08, 07:00 PM


how can he not? he has had a half of game worth of playing....

May 19, 2008  07:15 PM ET
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Last sentence is supposed to be Vikes will be good vs. the pass.

May 19, 2008  07:26 PM ET
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T-Jack has actually shown me that he can be good...believe it or not...

Just look at the stretch where he had a 78(ish)% completion percentage, he didn't have great yardage numbers, but he threw 3 TDs and 2 INTs...better than his season ratio...the Vikings went 3-0 and completely blew out the competition....plus, 7 of his 12 INTs came in TWO games....

May 19, 2008  07:28 PM ET
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"Aaron Rodgers has never looked good??
How about 19 straight completions against the Dallas Cowboys or not throwing a pick in 150 straight completions."

He went 18-24 in that game...I don't think he got 19 straight completions...and in his career, he's completed 35 passes only throwing the ball 59 times....

May 19, 2008  07:57 PM ET
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I have been on FN about a few days and have seen at least 10 of these TDs already.

May 19, 2008  07:57 PM ET
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And it's always the same teams.

May 19, 2008  08:28 PM ET
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The Vikings running game is far superior to the Packers running game, and the Packers passing game was set up for a QB who could either throw the bll extremely hard (Farve) or a QB who could release the ball extremely quickly (eg Marino or manning). Rogers cannot do either of these well enough to run the offense set up that way, else just about every team in the league would run quick slants for most of their offense, since a lot of QB's could run it better than Rogers.

The Packers have not upgraded a lot of positions. The strength of both the Vikings and Packers defenses is their front 7 (D-line and LB). The Vikings have much better DT's for run stopping, and with Allen, are not pretty equal in the Pass rush on the DE's. The Vikings finished with 1 sack less than the Packers last yea, without a premier pass rusher, and now that they have one, they should finish higher than the Packers in sacks.

The Packers were a passing team last year, and when they ran the ball, they depended on Grant to do ll of their carries for them (when he ran for 200 in the playoffs, no one else ran the ball for the Packers). That will just not work over an entire season, the back will be worn out, and there are some games where you want to run 40 or more times in a game, but you cannot with just 1 RB.

Plus, looking good in a game where you come in with your team down by a lot is not very hard when they are playing a soft coverage "prevent" defense. He has not done anything like that in close games.

The Vikings offense is built around the run. They don't need Tarvaris Jackson to pass all that well, if he is average, their offense would be one of the best in the league. Look at the offense over a 4 game stretch starting after the win against the Giants. they won all 4, 3 by at least 20 points, and Tarvaris was efficient over the stretch. he doesn't need to be spectacular, he only passed over 200 yards once, but that is all it takes to loosen up the run defense a little.

The Packers offense is set up by the pass. If Rogers cannot pass effectively, then the offense is bad, and they would not be all that good at running the football. If Rogers is average, they have a pretty good offense, but not as good an offense as the Vikes is when Tarvaris is just average, because looking outside of the Qb position, the Vikings have the better offense.

May 19, 2008  09:07 PM ET
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Garet, thank you for helping prove my point.

You said basically everything I tried to, but lucky for you there was no 1200 character limit LOL

May 19, 2008  11:31 PM ET
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I think the Vikings narrowly snatch this division from Green Bay

May 20, 2008  01:22 AM ET
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GaretJax you right that the offense is set up throw the pass but they aren't passes that are of much difficulty. They do a lot of short crossing routes. This new kid from Kansas is going to be great in this system. The run game is very important and came together nicely last year. People always think the Packers do nothing to get talent yet they are one of the younger more talented teams. Tarvis was a long way to go just to be adequate and he still has no one to throw too. Berrian is not a #1 guy. The Packers handled the run game last year and if the Vikings can't get anything going in the pass game they will see 8 men in the box all the time. They are too one dimensional on both sides of the ball. They don't have a good secondary so even if they can rush the passer you just leave a running back in to chip Allen.

Its too easy to counter a teams strengths when they have glaring weaknesses. The Packers are a much more rounded team that with no glaring weaknesses.

 
May 20, 2008  03:42 PM ET
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"This new kid from Kansas is going to be great in this system."

Jordy Nelson is a challenger for the 4th receiver slot right now. He'll be lucky to garner 15 catches this year.

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