Coletrain won the Throwdown.
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Long Island, NY
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Throwndowns: 206
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Miami, FL
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Marlins vs. Yankees


Here it is. Finally a truly meaningful TD topic. So who'll turn out better this year? Yanks or Marlins? Right now, the fish have the edge. But I believe (shocker!) the Yanks will turn out with more W's in the left column. I'll start off on just listing reasons why the Yanks are a good team on their own without comparing them to anyone yet.

2nd Half- The Yanks have started off slow for the past few years and they've still made the playoffs. Starting off slow is nothing new for this group of ballplayers. Why do they pick it up after the All-Star Break? 2 main reasons:

Batting Line-up: The Yanks have struggled with hitting on a consistent basis so far but that'll change. Last year Cano, Damon, Abreu and others started off slow but then hammered the ball in the 2nd half. The same thing will happen this year. This line-up is like a huge monster truck. Takes a while to get going, but once it hits it's stride you can't stop it.

Andy Pettitte- One of the best clutch pitchers of this generation, he's been a great pitcher in the 2nd half and he matters so much to this team. He's the anchor with Wang.

Another thing is the lack of a clear threat for the Wild Card in the AL. Cont.


There's no arguing the past. The Yankees have been able to improve on the 2nd half the past few years, true. However, your whole basis is founded on what they did, and not what they are doing.

Just because you were able to accomplish something in the past, doesn't mean you will be able to do so in the present. Why? Because outside factors always change.

As you said, the Yankees have struggled both in pitching and batting, and yet you state that just because this has happened in the past, that means they'll be able to do it again this year? When all signs point in the opposite direction?

Bottom line is the Yankees are 24th in MLB in runs and 22nd in hits.

Uggla alone, has the same number of HRs than Jeter, A-Rod and Matsui. That just one observation (which I will get into in 2nd argument) of the distance between these two offenses.

And their pitching? 18th. Very unstable with only Wang posting up decent numbers. Pettitte, though he may be a great pitcher, well so is Peavy and Oswalt...and in the end what matters is a 3-5 record.

And all history aside, Yankees continue to struggle while showing no clear signs of improvement, unlike the Marlins

Marlins on 2nd.


"that just because this has happened in the past, that means they'll be able to do it again this year?"

Here's the thing Ghost: Little has changed between with this team the passed few years. Their biggest move during the offseason was picking up LaTroy Hawkins. This is the same basic crew that has been tearing it up after the All-Star break for the past few years. You should be able to see the pattern with this ballclub right now.

About the Yanks pitching, Kennedy and Hughes will improve. Kennedy had his best start of the season against the O's on Thursday and that was the true Kennedy. Hughes has nasty stuff. Once both the young guys get going (which they will because they've always been highly regarded and they've shown in the past they can win in the bigs) and Pettitte gets going, you have a pretty good rotation.

Now about the AL. Besides of the Red Sox, what other team is dominating? No one. The Rays are gonna fall. Their line-up is still inexperienced (and hasn't been that good at all when you look at the stats) and the Angels still have some holes. The Tigers and Indians, 2 teams that were supposed to be great, have been busts.

I'll get on the Marlins next arg.


A lot of "when" and "will" there Coletrain, what if these "when"s don't happen?...now am I supposed to take your word on it, as if you have some revelation or shall I go by what the Yankees have actually done this year?

Are they winning? No. Bottom line is they're not getting it done.

Now to the Marlins....

1st place in division and 1 game away to tie best record in NL.

They're 11th in MLB in runs, 2nd in HRs and 2nd in SLG...

Like I said, Uggla alone has more HRs than A-Rod, Jeter and Matsui...

Jacobs and Hanley have also been very productive...

Role players such as Luis Gonzalez, Hermida, Helms, Cantu are also clutch (double figures in RBIs)

All this without Josh "Hammer" Willingham, who when he comes back (soon) will only add more power to this lineup.

On the pitching side:

Olsen, Hendrickson have been solid (under 4.0 ERA)...Miller has shown improvement lately,

And their bullpenn has been superb with Pinto, Miller, Kensing, Waechter and Gregg as closer ( which held the Dbacks recently to just 3 runs in 3 games)

All this without their top three rotation pitchers (Josh Johnson, Mitre and Sanchez) who are still due back..


"you have some revelation or shall I go by what the Yankees have actually done this year?"

Oh come on Ghost. My logic makes perfect sense. This is the same team that has come back from bad starts at least 2 years in a row. Simple logic says they have the stuff and will do it again when the rest of the AL isn't as good as years past.

Now about the Marlins. They've played some great baseball. BUT, I think they're just overachieving right now. Uggla is a streaky player. He has great power but is up and down as far as everything else goes. The hitting is good but they're still very young and very inexperienced. They're all just hot right now.

The pitching is another area where I can see them keeping up in. Olsen's career ERA is 4.58 and Mark's is 4.93. You think they're keeping this up? The bullpen is pretty solid but in the big game it's not the most trust-worthy unit.

Here's the thing with the Marlins. I think they're hot right now because the NL East hasn't been as good as a division as it was primed to be and they're riding the "no one believes in us" wave. Like the Rays. That may work now, but not in the long haul. This Yanks team has proved more than Florida.


As you said the NL East hasn't been that good as expected. This only works in favor of the Marlins, who though may not have a great team, has certainly showed good management in winning these games...

They play:

Nationals - 9 times
Reds - 4 times
Pirates- 3 times
Rockies- 8 times
Giants - 5 times
Mets - 15 times


.......All teams who have been struggling greatly and Marlins have a decent chance of winning.

While the Yankees have a much tougher schedule

Angels - 10 games
Red Sox - 13 games
Rays - 8 games


...are just some of the obvious tougher games the Yankees have to face.

Let's keep it simple.

All predictions aside....

Have the Yankees impressed? No.
Have they improved? 4-6 in last ten....I'd say no.
Have they hit well? No.
Have they pitched well? No
Do they have a good manager? No, but I bet they wish Torre was still around.

In the end, if we take away all the "when" and "will" and "what ifs" and "what could be"...they are in last place in their division.

"They should start heating up" and yet till now, they haven't.

"They should start cooling off soon" and yet the Marlins haven't.

Edge Marlins.

"Another thing is the lack of a clear threat for the Wild Card in the AL."

Worded that wrong. Should be lack of any dominant teams, besides of the Red Sox.

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Good luck Coletrain!

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And you want threats to Wild Card? How about Rays? Indians? White Sox? Tigers?

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Let's wait for arguments ppl.

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This should be a very good TD. I'm going to wait for the arguments, and I hope other people do too.

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I would really hope it is the Fish

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I hate the Yankees

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We all do my friend...

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This should be a great throwdown, so I'll hold back my vote.

But Coletrain, remember our 'MLB Team for the Future' throwdown? Guess who I picked....yeahhh :) lol

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Good luck to you Ghost also

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And good job 0x

lol

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Uggla doesn't have more HRs, but the same number as the three mentioned.

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Ooh, great topic. Gonna have to think about this one for a bit.

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Great arguments on both sides. But it's Coletrain and Ghost, was expected. Bravo.

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Haha, thanks.

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You guys can start voting if you want lol or this might end 0-0 lmao

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Vote left... Marlins don't have the relief pitching or the middle of the order pop to keep going at this pace.

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And the Yankees do..?

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I hate the Yankees...

Right now...because of arguments, vote to the right.

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Marlins bullpen:

Renyel Pinto - 1.29 ERA
Justin Miller- 3.75 ERA
Logan Kensing - 3.80 ERA
Doug Waechter - 1.80 ERA
M. Lindstrom- 3.18 ERA
Kevin Gregg - 2.31 ERA

.....that doesn't look that bad now does it?

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