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- June 23, 2008 02:35 PM ET
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Ellsbury Rocks said 06/23, 02:35 PM
The Boston Red Sox after last years envisioned this to be their starting rotation for this season.
Ace- Beckett
#2- Dice K
#3- Shill
#4- Wakefield
#5- Clay/Lester
Now what they didnt see coming was 5 of their top 7 pitchers going onto the DL during the seasonincluding the year long loss of their number 3. Did this stop the Red Sox from having a good rotation so far this year. No because they have proven to have the best depth in the AL at SP.
After they lost Schill for the year Beckett goes on the DL to start the season missing a couple starts. Who steps up to make up for this loss. No other than Dice K who starts the season 8-0 with a 2.54 ERA before he himself catches the injury bug.
Now the Sox have lost their three best pitchers for at least 2 starts each but Jon Lester who might not have been in the rotation has gone 6-3 with a 3.18 ERA to start the year.
Also the guy who first replaced Schill in the roation Clay Buchoulz got hurt himself so Colon and Masterson got called up. Colon went 4-2 with a 4.04 ERA before also catching the injury bug. Meanwhile Masterson who was in AA and was only supposed to make a spot start has pitched 6 games and has a ERA of 3.
Coletrain said 06/23, 02:52 PM
I'll go with the Angels.
It says something the Angels lost their #2 starter maybe forever and their #1 starter for the first quarter of the season yet they're still 46-30 right now. Granted, they have Lackey back now but they did most of that without him. First thing, it's widely known they have one of the best farm systems in baseball. They've had a great pool of prospects for a while now.
Up in the majors, their depth is fantastic. Ervin Santana and Joe Sanders have been terrific filling in for the injured stars. Ervin has always had tremendous talent and is finally showing all of it. The trade where they got Jon Garland for Orlando Cabrera has looked like a smart move. And Jered Weaver has been solid enough even though he hasn't pitched to his full potential. Now they have Lackey back and with him they have no weak spot in the rotation.
For the Red Sox, I think they knew that Schilling wouldn't be a big deal this season anyway and how much can you count on Colon. Colon is a pitcher who may show flashes but he's worked a lot in his career and has never fully fixed his arm. Beckett and Dice-K only had very short periods of DL time so those were no big deal really.
Ellsbury Rocks said 06/23, 05:03 PM
First thing, it's widely known they have one of the best farm systems in baseball. - That is known but the Red Sox farm system was ranked number two overall before the seasons started so its not like they dont have a good farm system as well.
The Red Sox have gotten 25 starts from their orginal top three pitchers while the Angels have gotten 23 so their even in that accord.
Lets go by position
#1 Beckett vrs. Lackey- Lackey has made 6 less starts and his ERA is superior but Beckett has only allowed 9 ER last 32 innings pitched. You have edge here.
#2- Dice K vrs. Joe Saunders- Dice K was 8-0 with a 2.53 ERA before bombing when making his first start in three weeks. Saunders is 11-3 with a 3.03 ERA. Dice K also has 7 more K''s in 46 less innings. This is a tie because of Dice's K's and dominance before 1 bomb.
#3- Lester vrs. Ervin- Lester is 6-3 with a 3.13 ERA while Santana is 9-3 with 3.17 ERA. Santana has more wins but this is a tie because the ERAs are so close.
#4- Wake vrs. Garland- Wake has .11 higher ERA but .15 lower WHIP and 26 more K's. Wake has a very small edge here.
#5- Sox combo v Weaver- sox in 108 innings have a 4,16ERA
Weaver 4.57 ERA m.t.c
Coletrain said 06/23, 05:41 PM
Fair point about the Red Sox farm system. That is very true.
About the match-ups:
The thing about Dice-K is he has walked a ton and has gotten out of a ton of jams even before imploding against the Cardinals. Sooner or later, that comes back to haunt him. Add the fact that Dice-K got tired at the end of last season also. We haven't seen Dice-K stay dominant for a full season. And I'd take Garland over Wake in a heartbeat. I know Wake eats innings, but he's just become an innings eater now. He has his solid days and his days where he gets pounded. And Weaver is a better pitcher than Masterson, Colon, and Clay (Clay still has to work some kinks out in AAA). Right now he's struggling, but he has great talent. I think he'll heat up as the 2nd half comes.
Ellsbury Rocks said 06/24, 11:32 AM
We haven't seen Dice-K stay dominant for a full season- At least we have seen Dice K complete a full average season unlike Saunders who ahas never completed a full year. I take the guy who hs completed a full year of mediocre pitching plus a dominant start over the guy who never has completed a full year before and is off to a dominant start.
Garland vrs. Wake- You says wake has solid days and awful days but Garland has allowed more than 5 R more times than Wake has. Also Wake has a streak of 5 starts which he has allowed 3 or fewer ER in at least 7 IP. Wake also puts the ball in play less so tat shows Garlands lower ERA is due to a goo defense and less HR.
Weaver is a better pitcher than Masterson, Colon, and Clay- I agree that he should be but so far the sox combo has been better. Clay also has more talent then Weaver does and the other guys have done better than Weaver this year considerbly. You thinking hes gonna heat up in the second half is great but until he does I have the statstic edge.
Nice TD coletrain
Coletrain said 06/24, 12:12 PM
Very good point about Joe Sanders, but the Angels have loved him for a long time and this is really the first time he's gotten a chance to start a full year. Because of the Escobar injury, he has come in and performed great. I don't think he's a fluke or anything. He's young, the organization has liked him a lot for a while, and he's showing up every game. Dice-K would worry me because he gets in so much trouble and has thrown so many pitches thus far (which was the reason he went on the DL in the first place; they had to rest his shoulder). He hasn't been dominant. He's wiggled out of jams in what seems like every inning.
Garland has always been a contact pitcher. That's what he is. It's no question that Garland has the better stuff. Wake is 100 years old and lives behind the knuckle. That's not a bad thing right now, but he's not that good anymore. And with Weaver, yeah I'm banking on the 2nd half. We all know he's not a 7-7, 4.56 ERA pitcher like he's showing right now. He's much better than that.
Great TD man. Glad we did this.
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What does the Angels pitching depth have to do with the quality of the AL West?
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That's a fair point, but once again you have to take into account that the Angels have lost their 2 best pitchers for longer periods of time. Add the fact the Angels have the best road record in baseball. They just swept one of the best line-ups of all of baseball in Philly. It tells you that even without their #2 starter they're still 16 games over .500.
Coletrain
Total Comments (10938)
I would like to add that for number 5 comparison the sox combo is Masterson, Colon, and Clay combined stats are 10-6, 4.16 ERA, and 93 K's is 108.1 innings while Weaver is 7-7 with a 4.56 ERA, AND 77K;s in 98 innings
Ellsbury Rocks
Boston, MA
Total Comments (1400)
I would to also add that when i said how many starts the two teams have gotten from top three pitchers I used Chill,Beckett, and Dice for Sox and Lackey, Weaver, and Escobar for Angels
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Im gettng killed so far.
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