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  • September 01, 2008 07:38 PM ET

Sp0rtNati0n has gone CRAZY -VI San Fran

A throwdowner named NCshvDavid (1000-292-68) vs Agrippa (91-53-18)
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On the Site that Shall not be named

They have a Poll, and like Agrippa and a box of Chicken WIngs- they get a little Crazy

The Question

Who is the greatest in Niner history?

THIER Pick?

Joe Cool

I want ONE of the 59.6% (I know some of you visit both sites)
to DEFEND this MISTAKE

My Pick?

JERRY RICE


On the Site that Shall not be named

They have a Poll, and like NCshvDavid after a Duke out recruits the North Carolina every year they get a little Crazy!

However in this case I think they made the right decision in picking Joe Montana. I'm hard pressed to say that Rice isn't but in this situation we have to think what if they never drafted Rice in 85?

Pre '85 - Montana has won and was MVP in two Super Bowls. It was clear he was on his way to greatness pre Rice.

Cool Joe effectively led his teams to 11 playoff appearances and 9 divisional championships.

Overall the man is a 8 time pro bowler , 7 time all pro, 4 TIME SUPERBOWL champion. MVP in 3 of those.

Threw for 273 TD's and 40,551 yards in his prolific career. 92.3 career rating.

I hope we can all agree Quarterback is the most important position on the field. He is the leader of the team and runs the offense. Considering Montana is widely considered one if not the best QB of all time he has to be considered the best 49er of all time.

With no Montana I don't grown up in Texas rooting against my dads Cowboys. Taylor,Craig and Rathman wouldn't be the great players they were and I don't grow up as Rice as my idol.


How did i KNOW that you would take this??

and Mine was BETTER


ok, lets get this out in the open-

comparing stats between a QB and a WR is just silly- you can;t compete with my Rec Yards and I can;t compete with your Passing yards- and since they are mostly the SAME yards- how can we compare??

But let me go here.

I seem to recall that a certain QB that was a BUST in Tampa is now in the Hall of Fame by tossing the Ball to Jerry.

Is Dwight Clark or ANY other wideout that played with Montana BEFORE Jerry got there in the Hall?


Joe was there for SIX years before Rice took the starting job- how many wideouts did Joe lead to the Hall?

exactly-

Lets go with this

Number of time leading the NFL in offense MONTANA only: ZERO

Number of time leading the NFL in offense MONTANA and RICE:TWO

Number of time leading the NFL in offense RICE only: FOUR

so Rice lead 4 to ZERO without the other in the top NFL offense of the YEAR- either Rice is pretty durn good or the QB he had is BETTER than Montana

Hmmm - makes you wonder.


Comparing stats between a QB and a WR is just silly - Agreed. We can however discuss the importance and impact of the positions. Without the accuracy of Montana arm they dont get too the Super Bowls they did.

"I seem to recall that a certain QB that was a BUST in Tampa" - I recall that whole team being a bust. Not a accurate analogy.


"Is Dwight Clark or ANY other wideout that played with Montana BEFORE Jerry got there in the Hall?" - Thanks for bringing this up. He lead the 49ers to two Super Bowls with no real hall of fame type talent on offense. Amazing wouldn't you say. Is that what you meant?


"so Rice lead 4 to ZERO without the other in the top NFL offense of the YEAR- either Rice is pretty durn good or the QB he had is BETTER than Montana" That is also not a fair comparison. That Offense that Young inherited is one of the best of all time. Decent running game so Rice wasn't keyed on every play.

Young and Montana comparisons should not make you go hmmmm. Does eating your own boogers make you a cannibal is a better quandary to make you go hmmm.


LEts take a look at those teams Pre-Rice

1981- Number 2 Defense in Yards, Number 1 Defense in Points allowed

The Niners had the 7th best Offense that year- and rushed for 1941 yards as well.

Not exactly the Run and Shoot with Joe was it?

The 1984 Niners HAD THE NUMBER THREE Rushing Offense in the NFL

Second best Defense might have something to do with that as well.

Now onto your "point" about the Niners running game post Rice

The 1994 Niners had the 6th Ranked rushing offense- but the NUMBER ONE PASSING GAME IN THE NFL

Keyed on every play? 112 catches that year 32% of EVERY completion went to Rice that year.

(by comparison - 27% of NE's Comp went to Welker last year)

Joe Montana never had a Number 1 passing game in a Super Bowl year Pre-Rice.

IF Rice was not the MAN to make that offense go- then how come Montana didn;t put anyone ELSE in the Hall? or even to more than 2 Pro Bowl?

Yet Rice put BOTH his QBs in the Hall of FAME

Rice is the CONSENSUS Number 1 Wideout of all time
Montana might be on most top 3 lists- yet Marino,Elway,Graham and Unitas are all there as well - but VERY few wideouts can touch Rice


1981- Number 2 Defense in Yards, Number 1 Defense in Points allowed - They had a good defense but that does not negate the fact Joe threw for 3,565 yards with 63.7 accuracy.

"Not exactly the Run and Shoot with Joe was it?" = This was his 3rd year in the league and 2nd year as a starter. I would say he was pretty damn good managing the game and taking what was given.

I noticed you failed to acknowledge the differences of impact a possible player can have on the team from each position.

Joe was the clear cut leader on these teams Rice or no Rice. You can be the best receiver in the world but the team goes as far as the QB will take them. Ask TO or Chad Johnson.

"The 1984 Niners HAD THE NUMBER THREE Rushing Offense in the NFL" - You can pull the statistics all day but the fact is these stats can all be direct results of the QB play . Running opens the pass as the pass can open the run game. You play to your strengths and manage the game which Joe was a genius at doing.

Joe also the for 3,630 yards for 28 TD's and 102.9 QB rating in 1984. Point being he didn't need hall of fame receivers to make him great.He was on his way already He made all the receivers around him great.

September 1, 2008  08:32 PM ET

I think its Montana but I will wait.

September 1, 2008  08:32 PM ET

Either way... saying Montana isnt crazy dave lol hes 1 or 2.

September 1, 2008  08:48 PM ET

Rice - Montana was the main reason the niners won the SBs even though Rice won one without him I know ,i know that "other" QB was Steve Younge

September 1, 2008  08:48 PM ET

But...

September 1, 2008  09:05 PM ET

Jerry Rice is the best WR ever to play the game hands down while Montana might be the best QB ever. Since Rice is definitly the best at what he did and Joe Cool is a maybe I give left the adcantage

September 1, 2008  09:19 PM ET

Montana. Receiver is an overrated position, and not near as important as QB. A good QB makes his receivers good.

Look what happened to Randy Moss when he got Tom Brady

September 1, 2008  11:16 PM ET

Haven't decided which way I'm leaning yet.

September 2, 2008  12:17 AM ET

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Well then you aren't leaning at all.

September 2, 2008  12:32 AM ET

Yeah, make a decision Dancing Gavin.

Like this: Joe Montana.

September 2, 2008  03:20 AM ET

Agrippa, I am a new member here and sent you an introductory fanmail which you ignored. Can you really afford to do that in a community where you rely on the goodwill of voters?

September 2, 2008  03:58 AM ET

seems like splitting hairs to me. other franchises would kill to have two greats like this to chose from. don't think you would go wrong with either choice. my choice would be Rice though as he did the same with diffrent QB's and had a longer career. Rice is the greatest reciever ever there is no debate on that, Joe is in the discussion for QB's and not the clear cut winner at his position.

September 2, 2008  11:41 AM ET

Remember, Joe Montana led the Cheif to the AFC chapmionship game at the end of his career, on o team that, without him, would have trouble making the playoffs. Rice lost big in a SB with Oakland on a team that would have made the SB without him, but might not done as well. Montana at the end of his career made a bigger impact than Rice at the end of his.

Montana won 2 SB's without Rice or any HOF reciever. Rice had Young, a hall worthy QB, passing to win to win 1 SB. That shows that Montana is better than Young, but not much else because WR's don't have as much control over the gam as WR's do.

September 2, 2008  01:27 PM ET

Agrippa, I am a new member here and sent you an introductory fanmail which you ignored. Can you really afford to do that in a community where you rely on the goodwill of voters?

John Joe | 09/02/08, 03:20 AM
Report Offensive Comment

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^'
What is that even supposed to mean? I rely on objective sports fans to read the title then the arguments and make an objective vote based on arguments. Any other methodology would be inconsequential for my whole reason being here.
I hardly even read my mail.

September 2, 2008  01:41 PM ET

Agrippa.

John Joe = Cassidy 2.0.

September 2, 2008  02:14 PM ET

Remember, Joe Montana led the Cheif to the AFC chapmionship game at the end of his career, on o team that, without him, would have trouble making the playoffs.

GaretJax is Richard Rahl |

You are WRONG- they were a 10 win team the season before with DAVE KREIG at QB and the year before that with STEVE DEBERG

don;t act like Montana came to the 2008 Dolphins and lead them to 15-1

and not only did Montana join that team but so did MARCUS ALLEN

September 2, 2008  02:18 PM ET

Montana- clutch in big games and the QB that everyone wants in a SB game. He should have retired but his years with the niners were amazing.

September 2, 2008  02:45 PM ET

Pimp slap with that last comment, David.

September 2, 2008  07:27 PM ET

Arguments are stronger from David

September 2, 2008  07:55 PM ET

This is a good throwdown with solid arguements from both sides,Agrippa brought his a game Dave.

 
September 2, 2008  07:58 PM ET

I would go with montana but best 49er would be Rice records that will go untouched and super bowl rings with 2 different QB's,Joe has the rings but he don't have the records so at the end of Brady's career will he be better than Joe? Good Comparision though 2 great QB's but Rice goes untouched in the wideout position.

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