NFL Nation TD Tourney Rd. 1: Who should the Colts have taken w/ the 1st pick in the 1983 draft knowing what we know now?
Oso's back-Sort of said 09/29, 05:16 PM
There are 5 HOF players who were chosen in 1983. Elway, Dickerson, Kelly, Marino, and Matthews. Hindsight is 20/20, so who should the Colts have taken?
I'm going with the pure passer who set 21 records that stood for longer than a decade, with some still standing today. I'm choosing the player who went to 9 different pro bowls; Dan Marino. He put up guady stats during his long tenure in the NFL. Here are just a few:
4967 Completions from 8358 Attempts, and a 59.4 completion %, 61,361 yards, 420 TD's and 252 INT's. That's the best TD to INT ratio in the NFL.
More importantly than stats Marino played with the same team for 17 years, and only missed significant playing time in 1 season, 1993, which was 10 years after he started. This is the most significant thing to note of Marino's career. Marino played with the team who drafted him, and did so for his entire career which spanned longer than all the other HOF players except Matthews.
CavaBearDians: Country First? said 10/01, 06:41 PM
I'm going to take the guy they did draft (but couldn't keep), Mr. John Elway.
When comparing the two players, you have to go beyond stats; the ever-important impact on team success merits more discussion when discussing who the TEAM ought to have drafted.
Elway was a winner. He held the record for most wins by a QB until only recently, his 148 edging Marino by 1. However, Elway's overall record is better, his 148-82-1 being considerably better than Marino's 147-93.
Elway also has the most 4th quarter comebacks by a QB, his 49 leading all others. Elway led "The Drive" perhaps one of the most memorable collection of plays in NFL history.
Elway led his team to FIVE Superbowls--more than any other QB in NFL history. The Broncos won two SBs with Elway, and he won MVP in one of them. Marino has 0 SB wins in only 1 appearance.
Simply put, John Elway was a kick-you-in-the-nuts, win-at-all-costs player, and it showed in his TEAM's numerous successes throughout his career. Elway played with a fire that made his team win, while Marino's career is marked my individual success. The Colts would have benefited enormously from having Elway as their QB.
Oso's back-Sort of said 10/01, 08:40 PM
A good choice if Elway would have wanted to play for the Colts However, if you pick a player who won't play for you, what is the point? Therein lies the problem.
Elway stated he would not play for the Colts, and proved he would not play in Baltimore by playing for the NY Yankees minor league team for 2 seasons.
The Colts recieved QB Mark Herrmann, OL Chris Hinton and a first-round pick in the 1985 NFL Draft which netted the Colts OG Ron Solt. Obviously this was a raw deal for the Colts. Hence, Elway would not have been a good pick.
Jim Kelly was also another QB who was drafted but held out on his team for a full 3 years and decided to play instead for the Gamblers of the USFL.
Marino on the other hand chose to play in the NFL rather than the USFL. He played 17 long years, 9 of which he earned pro bowl berths, including his rookie season where he started above his peers. The following year he earned the MVP and took his team to the Super Bowl.
CavaBearDians: Country First? said 10/01, 10:53 PM
This is only a hypothetical situation, and your point is invalid. There's no way to tell why the Colts didn't take Eric Dickerson or Dan Marino or anyone else. If we're taking into account that Elway did not want to play in Baltimore, then there really is no point to this debate at all--the topic would be weak. If this topic is to make any sense whatsoever, then all players have to be taken at face value, or it's silly for this topic to exist. I know what happened with the Colts, but it has no place in this debate. Plus, "knowing what we know now", Elway would have succeeded big time on the Colts, as he received his boost in Denver from great run support. Dickerson (whom the Colts eventually acquired) would have done the job, and more.
That said, let's get back to our topic.
If I offered you the best player in the league (probably Marino) who would put up incredible numbers but would do only that, would you take him over a player if taking him came with the promise of a championship (multiple even)? I think the answer is simple (no, if you were wondering). When push comes to shove, it's all about the jewelry. Bring us rings, an you're our guy.
Oso's back-Sort of said 10/01, 11:24 PM
My point is invalid? This is not a debate about who is the better quarterback or even who had the better career out of the class of 1983.
This is about which player would have suited the team best and brought lasting success to the team. Because Elway refused to play for the Colts then they should not have drafted him.
They received much less than comparable value for Elway who brought another team 2 SB rings. Does anyone even remember the players the Colts received for Elway? No. The only other viable option would have been Dickerson, and perhaps Kelly.
You are right when you say that we don't know why they didn't pick Dickerson or any other player. But it was obvious that the Colts had their hearts set on Elway despite his blatant refusal to ever take a snap for the Colts.
Had the Colts taken Marino, they would not have needed to wait until 2007 to earn a SB berth. They would have drafted a 9 time Pro-Bowl, MVP who could have carried them to the SB and created stability for an already storied franchise.
CavaBearDians: Country First? said 10/02, 11:13 PM
I don't understand how you don't see my point. This topic is not valid unless we remove the assumption that John Elway would want to leave the team, that Dickerson would come to the Colts, that Kelly would not initially play in the NFL. This topic is not even a debate unless we remove those assumptions. If we're to take into account all of those factors, then Marino is the only option. So yes, if we take into account that Elway refused to play in Baltimore, then you clearly win, but on a topic akin to "Who is the best WR of all time?". This is a Throwdown, where two opposing arguments are submitted on a debatable topic. That's what I was trying to do...
I stick with my choice. John Elway would have been the perfect player to play for the Colts.
Nice TD. I definitely enjoyed it...
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Comments (19)
I can't respond until later this weekend...sorry...busy with homework
CavaBearDians: Country First? | 09/29/07, 05:21 PM
Report Offensive CommentAre you a Bears fan?
CavaBearDians: Country First? | 09/29/07, 05:22 PM
Report Offensive CommentLOL Sorta kinda. I like the Bears much more than I like the Cowboys. I'm pulling for them this year. But 1st and foremost I'm an Eagles fan. I just figure why be obvious with a profile name/pic. LOL Just don't forget we have a 24 hour window to post arguments/finish the TD for the tourney. Double check with Cheezehead on that.
Oso's back-Sort of | 09/29/07, 05:24 PM
Report Offensive CommentIt's to post arguments, sorry if I got you confused. But if you go a little over, it's okay; I'll let you go. I just put that rule in so people don't take a week to post an argument.
Cheezhead | 09/29/07, 07:33 PM
Report Offensive CommentThanks dude. I I'll try to get on sometime today....I should be later than sometime in the evening...If it gets to be where I'm really holding it up, then I will forfeit the matchup in the tourney, but finish this TD. Obviously I'm not doing this on purpose (I hate incompletes--I'm in Finish Your TD's). Now you may be wondering why I'm wasting my time telling you what's up when I can be posting my argument. I'll tell you why--I have to make sure I'm giving the best argument and that takes some effort, not a 5-minute quickie.
CavaBearDians: Country First? | 09/30/07, 06:52 AM
Report Offensive CommentLOL I'm not one for quickies either. I blew a totally awesome TD idea because I rushed to judgement on one of the choices and was wrong.
Oso's back-Sort of | 09/30/07, 09:13 AM
Report Offensive CommentI hope everyone is reading all the arguments.
CavaBearDians: Country First? | 10/01/07, 11:01 PM
Report Offensive CommentUm, wouldn't the stats be changed if they had played for different teams? Marino probably wouldn't have gotten to throw quite as many times as he did with the Dolphins...
Big Ben68 | 10/01/07, 11:06 PM
Report Offensive CommentTrue
CavaBearDians: Country First? | 10/01/07, 11:09 PM
Report Offensive CommentUm, wouldn't the stats be changed if they had played for different teams? Marino probably wouldn't have gotten to throw quite as many times as he did with the Dolphins...
Big Ben68 | 10/01/07
What's your basis for that assumption?
Oso's back-Sort of | 10/01/07, 11:26 PM
Report Offensive CommentWe could assume many different variables if you like, including Dickerson eventually being on the same roster as Marino/Elway/Kelly, which could have meant multiple SB's. Talk about potential Dynasty!
Oso's back-Sort of | 10/01/07, 11:30 PM
Report Offensive CommentThey DID draft Elway...that didn't work out at all. They would be fools to take again him knowing he would never play a down for them, especially with other top QBs sitting there.
Why make the same mistake twice?
Rodclo | 10/02/07, 10:45 AM
Report Offensive CommentOso, what I mean is if Marino was drafted by the Colts his career could have been DRASTICALLY different than if history had gone as it had. You can't really use his TRUE stats to represent WHY you would want to take him...it just wouldn't fit in.
Big Ben68 | 10/02/07, 11:54 PM
Report Offensive CommentI am not sure you would have gone wrong with Elway, Marino or Kelly.
You wil never see a class that good again.
Kelly making it to 4 straight SBs, Marino with all those passing records, and Elway just as good.
Roddo is right, they did draft Elway and he refused to play for them. Kelly would have been a better fit for Indy.
Kdawg | 10/03/07, 12:20 AM
Report Offensive CommentYou can't tell him that they Elway didn't want to play for the Colts, this is all speculation, the Colts knew that, but they couldn't predict Elway sitting out
The Waiting Game | 10/03/07, 01:48 AM
Report Offensive CommentYou can't tell him that they Elway didn't want to play for the Colts, this is all speculation, the Colts knew that, but they couldn't predict Elway sitting out
That One Guy | 10/03/07
How so? Elway was playing in the minors for the Yankees for 2 seasons. He said he'd never play a down for the Colts, plus there was the USFL. He had all the leverage he needed.
Kelly was the same way with the Bills. He wanted a warm weather team initially, which is why he refused Buffalo for 3 years.
History repeats itself so often it's not funny. Look at J. D. Drew and the Phillies, Eli Manning and the Chargers... But at least the Chargers got comparable value. Anyway....I digress.
Oso's back-Sort of | 10/03/07, 07:09 AM
Report Offensive Comment"Elway stated he would not play for the Colts"
This is exactly why I have zero respect for Elway no matter his accomplishments. And It's why I'll never have any respect for Eli if he ever does become good, lol.
To try and bypass the NFL draft system by threatening to go play baseball (or using your Daddys leverage in the league) is the epitome of classless.
If Elway truly wanted to play baseball, great. More power to him, wish ya luck. But that wasn't the case. He used baseball to get what he wanted in football. Classless.
So...in hindsight....the Colts made a mistake in drafting a classless player, but the others , even though they are all HOFers aren't great choices for them, either. Marino was a product of his system, Kelly developed in the minors (USFL), Matthews doesn't help that team much. I guess that leaves Dickerson.
Yep, I can now confidently say that the Colts should have drafted Eric Dickerson in 1983. Whew...glad I finally came to that realization after having it weigh on my mind for over two decades...
It all worked out in the end, though. Erics last three pro bowl seasons came as a member of the Colts.
Cowboys-Celtics-Chisox | 10/03/07, 09:06 AM
Report Offensive Comment"Elway stated he would not play for the Colts"
This is exactly why I have zero respect for Elway no matter his accomplishments. And It's why I'll never have any respect for Eli if he ever does become good, lol.
To try and bypass the NFL draft system by threatening to go play baseball (or using your Daddys leverage in the league) is the epitome of classless.
If Elway truly wanted to play baseball, great. More power to him, wish ya luck. But that wasn't the case. He used baseball to get what he wanted in football. Classless.
So...in hindsight....the Colts made a mistake in drafting a classless player, but the others , even though they are all HOFers aren't great choices for them, either. Marino was a product of his system, Kelly developed in the minors (USFL), Matthews doesn't help that team much. I guess that leaves Dickerson.
Yep, I can now confidently say that the Colts should have drafted Eric Dickerson in 1983. Whew...glad I finally came to that realization after having it weigh on my mind for over two decades...
It all worked out in the end, though. Erics last three pro bowl seasons came as a member of the Colts.
Cowboys-Celtics-ChiSox | 10/03/07
Yeah, but I think the Elway situation had more to do with who was coaching the Colts at the time (what's his name, I can never remember). Elway's dad was a high school football coach and had no respect for the guy because he felt he didn't protect his players, i.e. made them play hurt, etc..so he didn't want his son in that kind of environment.
CaptainObvious* BS | 10/03/07, 09:21 AM
Report Offensive CommentThis is exactly why I have zero respect for Elway no matter his accomplishments. And It's why I'll never have any respect for Eli if he ever does become good, lol.
Cowboys-Celtics-ChiSox | 10/03/07
Interesting that you'd bring up Eli. I have thought about how his career might have been different had he actually played for the Chargers rather than throw a tantrum. But then Brees life would have been totally different too. He still might have been on the Chargers bench or waiting on someone else's roster to start. Maybe I think too much about these things, but it's fun to muse. Thanks to those of you who had some really good input. That's what makes for a good TD.
Oso's back-Sort of | 10/03/07, 09:40 AM
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