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  • October 09, 2007 12:03 AM ET

Moneyball is a better than Smallball

awendell989 (5-14-1) vs awc1230 (37-13-1)
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The top 5 offenses this year:
Yankees
Phillies
Boston
Detriot
Rockies

All these teams are Big ball teams


Okay, first off, the Rockies and Detroit play more smallball compared to teams like teh Yankees, Phillies, and Red Sox. The Tigers didnt even make it to the playoffs. Look at the teams standing in the playoffs: the Indians, Red Sox, Diamondbacks, and Rockies. Every team still in the playoffs except for the Sox has a cheaper payroll than the ROYALS. Also, the Diamondbacks and Rockies focus on their youth and speed, as do the Indians. The moneyball teams like the Cubs, Yanks, and Phillies? They are all out of the playoffs.
Wheras there is still the Red Sox, the last of the Moneyball teams by income terms, who truly plays more small ball with players like Coco, Pedroia, and even Lugo.


1) THe phillies lost this year because they had poor starting pitching. THey had the highest ERA of any pitching team. The yankees and cubs had the same problem.
2) Small income teams like the A's. Last year's runner up in the a AlCS, moneyball team. They had a salary well beneath that of the indains and Angels.
3) The angles mustered no runs this division series. Beckett was lights out, but Matsusaka and Shilling were not, but they got out of Jams because bunting and stealing bases wastes outs.


The Phillies did have poor pitching, put they were not the worst. That title belongs to the Chi Sox. Okay, so the arguement is homerun, obp baseball is better than smallball with bunts, hit/run, etc. None of the teams still in the playoffs heavily rely on homeruns. The onl one that could be considered as relying on your "moneyball" would be the BO SOX, who as i stated before play more smallball. Teams with lots of homeruns? Phillies? out of the playoffs. Yankees? out of the playoffs.


Again you fail to see the point. Are the phillies out of the playoffs because they didn't score runs? Are the Yankees? No there not. THey sucked at pitching. THe Angles had arguably the best pitching staff this postseason. Why did they lose? thye didn't score? bEcause they bunted and wasted outs by stealing. Okay and first Dusting Pedrioa has a high on base percentage. and Lugo and Crisp bat 8-9 in the Redsox order.

Small ball is dead. It killed Chicago Whitesox O this year.


no, pitching killed the whitesox this year. Small ball is not dead--LOOK AT THE PLAYOFFS. These successful teams use it all the time. They are all youth led teams getting better, not worse. Smallball is obviously more effective: Look at the Rockies//Phillies series. Neither team had dominant pitching, infact, they were both similar. However, the Rockies won, because of the offense they used. Lets not forget, players that play for moneyball teams usually arent going to focus on defense. Players that swing for the fences and rack up 115 RBIS and have rediculous contracts dont usually focus on how they play defensively, only offensively. Defense is the most overlooked part of baseball. If you cant catch or throw or do a proper rely, it can make or break a season.

Comments (20) Add A Comment

October 9, 2007  12:08 AM ET
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Big Ball doesn't necessarily translate into "moneyball". Have you even read the book?

October 9, 2007  12:44 AM ET
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He's right, small ball rules!!!

October 9, 2007  12:50 AM ET
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"Look at the teams standing in the playoffs: the Indians, Red Sox, Diamondbacks, and Rockies. Every team still in the playoffs except for the Sox has a cheaper payroll than the ROYALS"

Well, as it goes, his title would mean you argued for him. Moneyball is a book about Billy Beane's ability to keep Oakland competitive with one of the lowest payrolls in the game. But his argument sucked bologna, so you are in line for a vote here.

October 9, 2007  12:50 AM ET
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Moneyball has NOTHING to do with big ball. The exact opposite, actually.

October 9, 2007  08:03 AM ET
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Moneyball is not whoever pays the most money wins. That's actually kind of the opposite of moneyball. I can't vote for anyone yet.

October 9, 2007  08:47 AM ET
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regardless of this moron's assessment of moneyball, small ball still sucks.

October 9, 2007  08:53 AM ET
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Small ball is dead, smart ball is in. Every team is trying to have a mix of power and speed. You can list 3 fast/put it in play batters on every team, as well as 3 guys with some pop.

October 9, 2007  08:55 AM ET
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but at the same time, that sort of thing is ruining a lot of players in a way. Curtis Granderson, Grady Sizemore, and especially Alfonso Soriano should not be batting leadoff just because of their speed.

October 9, 2007  08:59 AM ET
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smallball, moneyball, smartball ---- shoot, what ever happened to baseball? This is not rocket science folks --- As Casey Stengle once said - you catch the ball; you throw the ball; you hit the ball - Do those 3 things well and you will be a ballplayer

October 9, 2007  09:01 AM ET
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to expand on Larry's quote:

YOU LOLLYGAG YOUR WAY AROUND THE INFIELD, YOU LOLLYGAG YOUR WAY DOWN TO FIRST. WHAT DOES THAT MAKE YOU? LARRY?!

lollygaggers!

LOLLYGAGGERS!

October 9, 2007  10:22 AM ET
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You guys have moneyball all wrong. The Indians are indeed a "moneyball" team, though I'm not sure that term applies to any team in the league anymore - at least not the way the term was presented in Lewis' book. And if we are using that term as a baseline, the Cubs may be the least "moneyball" team in all of baseball. The main tenets of moneyball are present in all the remaining teams. Neither of you makes a reasonable argument, but when it comes down to it none of the remaining teams are "smallball" teams because it is not a viable strategy. Smallball is dead.

October 9, 2007  03:07 PM ET
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I have read the book front to back

October 9, 2007  03:10 PM ET
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when I ment Moneyball I meant an offense built on On-base percentage, homeruns, and walks not on stolen bases, bunts, etc. Not on payroll

October 9, 2007  05:33 PM ET
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Small ball will always win over money ball for one very glaring obvious reason..."the feel good story" of it all.
Theres a reason Rocky, Major league, Rudy and movies of this type do so well...

October 9, 2007  06:01 PM ET
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aren't those the same thing???

October 9, 2007  06:40 PM ET
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Nice research awc on the payroll..that won me over

October 9, 2007  06:54 PM ET
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why would you launch a throwdown about balls?

October 9, 2007  10:30 PM ET
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The book was not about walks, home runs, and obp. It was about how Billy Beane kept the A's competitive with one of the lowest payrolls in baseball, while using those stats to create one of the best teams in hte league. He knew those stats were important, and got them for cheap.

PAYROLL HAD EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE BOOK
I read it from front to back.

October 9, 2007  11:35 PM ET
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Holy crap. awendell got pwned in the nuts. Ouch.

 
October 10, 2007  07:56 AM ET
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"Players that swing for the fences and rack up 115 RBIS and have rediculous contracts dont usually focus on how they play defensively, only offensively" -awc

this is not true, there are a bunch of 100 rbi golld glove winners. andrew jones, a-rod, mark teixera, abreu, torri hunter are just a few

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